RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Ever wonder why law makers are trying to make new gun laws?

3K views 26 replies 12 participants last post by  DarrinGreene 
#1 ·
The neighbor across the street has an angry black lab that gets out of their yard often. When he's out, he chases people down and charges at anyone walking in the area. Today he pinned our 8 year old neighbor against the car and was snapping at him. Brad hollared at the dog, and he ran across the street. So, the little kid goes in for a minute, and comes back out with a pistol:eek:. He walked up to Brad and said "I'm going to protect myself from that damn dog." Yes, he's 8 saying this. Then the kid went on, telling Brad that it was a .22 (although Brad suspects it was a bb or pellet gun), and went about telling Brad where it's kept in the house and that his dad told him to use it if he's ever in danger.

Probably should have called the cops, but am just now getting to the point where they're civil towards us after we had to call on the last year for leaving the 6 & 7 year old kids alone while mom and dad went into town. When Gunner scaled the kennel wall, she called me and threatened to turn him in as a dangerous dog if she saw him out again. They're great neighbors. If the market was good and the credit card paid off, this house would be up for sale, but as neither of those are the case, we're stuck here.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Every thing about what you said is already against the law. Was the 8 yo home alone? #1. An 8 yo with access to a gun? #2. 8yo brings said gun in the yard without adult ? #3

I saw the local news today do a story about the increase in gun sales this year. The guy who owns Eagle Gun Range is a friend of mine and they interviewed him. They couldn't get him to say that it was fear of what the Obama administration was going to do on camera, so the reporter said that he also said that. All he said on camera was that the crime rate was up and people wanted to protect themselves. I thought it was funny that they couldn't get him ro say it so they had to put it in in the narrated part that the reporter does. They were asking people on the street if they thought we needed stricter gun laws. The only person they could get to say yes was one black guy who said that yes we need stricter gun laws because mostly convicted felons had guns. Wonder where he got that scientific study? And in case no one was looking...ITS ALREADY AGAINST THE LAW FOR FELONS TO HAVE GUNS!!!!! Why can't people realize that we already have all the laws we need. What we have that we don't need is selective enforcement. The ultimate goal of all of these laws is to make all guns illegal, fortunately for us tha framers of the constitution made this as hard as possible.

BTW Joni this is not a slam against you. The news story got my dander up.
 
#3 ·
I am confused. What new gun law, not already in effect, is going to stop an 8 yr old kid from threatening to shoot an aggressive dog?

How about keeping the same old laws we have always had and simply hold people accountable for their own irresponsible actions? Like letting a mean dog run at large, or not realizing your 8 yr old kid, isn't as mature as you hoped he was.

I wouldn't call the cops, I would disarm the stupid kid and have a non accusational talk about firearm safety, with the parents immediatly.
 
#5 ·
I realize that everything about this situation is against the law, but people still think that making new laws that are tougher are going to stop stuff like this. The problem is, crimes are usually do not happen with legally owned guns, handled by intelligent people. Obviously this family is lacking something in the intelligence area. His mom was home this time, but she sees nothing wrong with leaving the kids to run into town for something.

Needless to say it led to some excellent conversation with Harleigh. And as far as the dog goes, he is owned by a cop's ex-wife and whenever the dogs are reported out, an officer kindly comes over and secures them in the yard. The fact that we have a leash law and dogs get "1 free trip home" before being taken does not apply here.

Obviously Harleigh will not be having much friendly neighborhood play time with the kids next door. I wouldn't put it past him to pack that thing around all the time now. Chances are his "attentive":rolleyes: mom didn't even know he handled the gun.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I'm confused here;
Are you saying the kid has no right to defend himself from an out-of-control animal whose owner has no regard for the law, just because he's "only" 8 years old ? Read the 1st post "an angry black lab that gets out of their yard often. When he's out, he chases people down and charges at anyone walking in the area." This is most likely NOT the first time ths has happened to the boy! What if the boy had gotten the gun and defended an elderly lady that was being threatened by the dog? Wouldn't you be calling him a "hero" instead of 'stupid"?


Consider this
Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :

Butte, Montana November 5, 2008

Two illegal aliens, Raphael Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably
believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia
Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and
Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front
door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12
gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first
to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee
crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left
shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before
medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber
handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old
David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.

Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC
news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home and
herself......against two murderous, illegal aliens .......and she wins, she
is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control!
 
#9 ·
I'm confused here;
Are you saying the kid has no right to defend himself from an out-of-control animal whose owner has no regard for the law, just because he's "only" 8 years old ? Read the 1st post "an angry black lab that gets out of their yard often. When he's out, he chases people down and charges at anyone walking in the area." This is most likely NOT the first time ths has happened to the boy! What if the boy had gotten the gun and defended an elderly lady that was being threatened by the dog? Wouldn't you be calling him a "hero" instead of 'stupid"?

Yes and no. This dog situation seems to be well know and has happened before. The problem should be solved by the law and animal control, NOT by a 8 year old with a gun. While your examples are all well and good, this situation does not equate with any of them. If the kid went back into the house to get a gun (against the law in my state any way) he had removed himself from any danger and the proper thing to do would have been to call animal control or the local law.
Since you like what if's, what if that same 8 year old walked outside to shoot the dog and instead missed and shot another 8 year old near by or anyone including himself for that matter?
look I agree that there are already laws in place that should be enforced and there are times when circumstances dictate that someone like this may need to really defend himself or his family but this is not the case here.
 
#7 · (Edited)
and what new gun law would have prevented that?



your title sounds as if you think lawmakers are justified in making laws to prevent such behavior.

enforcing the laws on the books, and actually punishing people for the crimes they commit are great deterrents. We don't need more laws, we need the old ones enforced.

at the very least the child is committing a crime by carrying a pistol in public. He has to be 21 to legally possess a handgun in public. By threatening to use it he is "menacing"

and let's not forget that a citation for a loose dog, or a possibly dangerous dog being allowed to pin a child against a car? Why aren't the dog owners in trouble. Sounds like the dog is out regularly?
 
#10 ·
and what new gun law would have prevented that?



your title sounds as if you think lawmakers are justified in making laws to prevent such behavior.
Sorry. That was not my intentions. I think that people who don't own guns/are opposed to guns think that tougher laws would make things like this go away. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We don't need more laws, we just need people to use what little of their brain they haven't ruined yet. I am making a call to the police today, but more as a concern than to report.
 
#8 ·
Contact a superior officer, mayor, city counsel if you have to. Have a chat about what appears to be preferential treatment for a policeman's ex-wife's dog and that the dog is aggressive. If you have a leash law, you have a basis for complaints to law enforcement and back it up with letters to the editor, or promises thereof if you don't get a satisfactory response. Get photos/video of said dog and of the officers putting the dog away if anyone can.

Much more concerning, the kid's mom needs to be made aware her son brought a pistol out of the house with the intent to defend himself, however politely you can manage it. You aren't doing her any favors by not telling her, even if she doesn't like it. The kid was afraid of the dog and I don't blame him, use that in approaching mom, get her on board to help complain about the dog, come up with some proactive approaches together in the guise of helping your children deal appropriately with these situations instead of turning to firearms that they aren't mature enough to deal with yet. Next could be another child that sets him off if he isn't made aware of responsible gun handling. Or she could lose her child to a dog that goes over the edge.

Fear of retaliation by the neighbors isn't enough to warrant ignoring what the kid did with a gun or a loose, aggressive dog. Gun laws have little to do with this situation, personal accountability does and not sticking one's head in the sand for fearing bad feelings with the neighbors.
 
#11 ·
I'll grant that in the strictly "legal" text of the law, the boy was not in "self defense" anymore, he could have stayed in the house. When he went back out, that became "retaliation". And law enforcement "should" have been notified (again!)

BUT when "the system" repeatedly lets it's citizens down, when it shows our young people that there is one set of laws for the common people and another for the privileged and that adults don't have do the same things we tell our kids to; it's no wonder to me that an 8 y/o boy got "mad as hell & wasn't going to take it anymore"!
And then, by trying to do something about a problem yourself when apparently NOBODY else will, just gets you called "stupid" or worse yet, gets you punished? I have little doubt that this young man will turn apathetic and the next time something happens, he will turn his back and say "Get involved? Why should I?" And that, to me, is a bigger tragedy, than any "what if he had missed/shot someone else?"

What I was trying to emphasize is that all too often in our present society/media, young person + firearm = EVIL, automatically. And that's not true, imo. This young man did NOT go looking for trouble, it was PUT in his face, repeatedly. He didn't take the gun and go shoot up the school because somebody "dissed him". He used it to try and defend his neighborhood because adults didn't. Yes, his father told him where the gun was located "if he's ever in danger", and the boy didn't do anything else with that knowledge until, in his belief, he was.

Here's a "what if" - This young man didn't know the semantics of self defense/retaliation.
What if there had been a mandatory firearms education program in the school as well as a mandatory sex education/HIV prevention program?
 
#13 ·
And that is what is wrong exactly, a whole neighborhood that apparently knows there is a dog that gets loose, chases people, pinned this 8 year old and NO ONE is doing anything about it? Not even taking the dog out, much as I dislike that aspect? The kid has no adult role models to follow that show him responsibility and moral behavior, so he does what he sees on TV and video games, right or wrong.

Kids played with BB guns, bows and arrows when we grew up, target practice was as common as playing baseball, we live in an area that still supports hunting, kids start early learning responsibility with weapons. My son has always had or been around guns, hunting knives, etc. but with education and responsibility gained as he grew older, starting with air rifles and moving up. Had he done something like this, I would a: want to know ASAP, b: do something about the dog, c: apologize to my son for not dealing with a known threat and d: emphasize the rules and laws regarding guns, which he SHOULD already know if he has access to them. The gun wasn't the problem in this scenario, the adult behavior and lack of guidance for a child is.
 
#15 ·
I have been emailing the police chief all morning because I can't call until my prep period. He will "deal" with the dog or so he says. Once he realizes that it's the detective's ex-wife, he may not deal with the dog. He will also deal with the retaliation fear that Brad and I have for reporting the neighbor. He did not address my concerns about the kid with the gun, which unfortunately doesn't surprise me, but when I talk to him in person I'll make sure we address that. I'll let you know how that phone call goes later.
 
#18 ·
Well that was a pointless phone call. The next time the dog is we are to call 911 and report it. If it snaps at people it "MAY" be determined a potentially dangerous dog and apparently there are some restrictions that go with that. About the kid packing a gun, again, call 911 and they'll deal with it.

About the relatiatory neighbor, I was told it's best to try to get along with your neighbors, and if there are threats, they can "sometimes" deal with that, but dirty looks and stuff is out of their hands.

Knowing that 911 has been called several times when the dog is out, and it's been put back in the yard by a police officer, I don't have high hopes for this situation. The officers are really good at handling the kids with guns in a low key way apparently so it would be addressed in that fashion.
 
#20 ·
Knowing that 911 has been called several times when the dog is out, and it's been put back in the yard by a police officer, I don't have high hopes for this situation. The officers are really good at handling the kids with guns in a low key way apparently so it would be addressed in that fashion.
Time to call the mayor and or city council. If you have, in fact called 911 on multiple occassions and nothing has been done, take it up with with a higher authority than who you're dealing with now.

As for the kid his parents would be talking to me and do something about it, or he would have mysteriously point the gun at Brad and threatened him with it... Then it would get resolved.

OR... maybe you should just start packin and defend yourself against both the dog and the little nutjob next door...
 
#19 ·
If worse comes to worse as much as I don't like it then maybe the dog should "disappear".
 
#22 ·
Actually, maybe the youngster just needs to play at your house more often so that he can see what a normal childhood/family looks like. Mentor the little kid so that when he is a teenager he won't shoot up the school, or if he does, maybe your daughter will be one of the lucky ones that is spared since she was the only friend he had. Obviously he shouldn't be allowed in the house without adults present, and your daughter should refrain from hanging out with him out of the yard or at his house.
 
#24 ·
Didn't want to make you feel bad, hey you're doing what parents are supposed to do, which is protecting your daughter. However, when I was growing up, the whole town protected its kids. They also had the right to punish all of us kids with a swat on the butt and a call to mom or dad for another round once we got home! It does take a village to raise a good citizen. Just knowing that a total stranger (to us kids anyway) had the right to spank us kept us honest!
 
#25 ·
I was raised the same way. It would probably do the kid good to hang out with us, but I'll admit I'm not that good with other people's little kids. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm surrounded by big kids all day.
 
#26 ·
I don't think I would let her go to his house but you could really teach him some positive things letting him come over!
 
#27 ·
Joni, I'm with you on this. I wouldn't raise their kid for them. I would make sure he never got near my daughter ever. They would have had to get the gun back from the cops were it me the kid came to with it.

I raise my own under a very watchful eye and expect other parents to do the same.

My son's first GF is history now because she was a borderline ho at 12 years old. I never told her mother but I made sure she went bye bye in my own way...

That was me protecting my SON from a girl. So what do you think I would do in your shoes to protect my daughter?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top