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Thread: Democrats, I have to ask...

  1. #11
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    OK, let's try to start with something basic and build from there.

    We are in a real bad economic situation which is comparable to the period before the great depression, yes? From what I have read and heard, most economists and experts believe so.

    Is a stimulus package needed? From what I have read and heard, most economists and experts agree that a stimulus package is needed to jump start the economy. If you don't think so, why not and what is your alternative?

    The question then becomes what should be in a stimulus package? This stimulus package, at this point, has/had a bunch of stuff in it that does not belong. Assuming you believe that a stimulus package is needed what should be in there? It already has $300+ billion in tax cuts. What else is needed folks? I look at the list that KG posted and there sure appears to be a lot of infrastructure projects. Much of that seems generally good. What specifically on the list should be there or not and what should be there that isn't?

    The problem with the infrastructure projects is that only about 25% of it will be spent prior to the end of 2010. How is that stimulative to the effect of taking us out of an impending deep recession. We are not in a situation that was as bad as even the Carter recession yet, doesn't mean it won't get worse especially with printing Trillions of dollars of paper. I don't see the logic in the Democrats screaming at how much Bush overspent but they expect to fix it by spending more? What will work? Do the 25% of spending that actually is short term stimulative, put a 6 to 12 month large reduction on Small Business taxes, capital gains tax, and income tax. The Banks obviously don't want to run themselves ethically and we don't want them nationalized so we need to let them fail and cannibalize to sort the market out. Unfortunetly that will slow down any recovery due to the lack of credit flowing, but long term that might be a good thing, it was flowing a bit too freely for a long time.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post

    OK, let's try to start with something basic and build from there.

    We are in a real bad economic situation which is comparable to the period before the great depression, yes? From what I have read and heard, most economists and experts believe so.
    It depends on which part of the country you are living in. The economy may be bad in the rust belt where unions are the strongest. We had a GM plant close in Shreveport, La. but, it wasn't due to thier local economy as much as all domestic auto mfg's are having problems. In speaking with a local Toyota dealer this week, they had a record January for sales! The media is creating most of this economic meltdown by scaring everybody! We need to return to a Free Market Economy and let things sort themselves out.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  3. #13
    Senior Member precisionlabradors's Avatar
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    the problem i have with the stimulus is that it is so big and the beneficiaries are so many that it is impossible to predict the efficacy.

    it seems that the govt keeps it ambiguous to confuse the public and tell us that everything will be okay.

    i want to know just how it will benefit us and at what cost. when will it benefit?

    as for the majority of the people that are waaaaay against it, it seems that there are few better solutions. i started a thread on that about a week ago. nothing real thought provoking there.

    booty-according to you, since you are pretty active in this part of the board, give me a synopsis of the bailout. how is it economic suicide?

    i've studied up on the bailout, but must be pretty dumb or something, because it makes little sense to me.
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    Last edited by precisionlabradors; 04-26-2011 at 03:22 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precisionlabradors View Post
    booty-according to you, since you are pretty active in this part of the board, give me a synopsis of the bailout. how is it economic suicide?

    i've studied up on the bailout, but must be pretty dumb or something, because it makes little sense to me.
    The bailout makes little sense to me too! I've stated on similar threads what I feel is wrong with it. to recap; it will NOT stimulate the economy but cost us financially much more than we can afford. The real problems need to be addresses, not have money thrown at them. The USA can not be competitve in mfg-ing because our Labor Unions makes us uncompetitve. Look at the U S Auto Makers for a start. Instaed of trying to bail out a broken business model, moves need to be made that will make them competitve. Getting rid of the entitlement mentallity and limiting the power of the unions would be a great start. A REAL stimulus package would be one that would encourage businessses to reinvest and grow. Tax breaks for business would jump start any part of the country experiencing a slow down. This would also create more taxes as these business grow, hire and spend. Next, give tax payers a break so that they feel good about buying things they want from luxury items to esstentials. Let the free economy reign because we need less government, not more. As i've said before, both parties are the culprits. However, this TRILLION dollar plus bill will bury us because it is nothing more than a liberal spending bill that is NOT going to stimulate anything. The American people know it and that is why most are against it.The biggest thing we can do is place strict term limits on Congress. Lets get rid of the career politicians. McCain said the same thing last night and I've been saying it forever. The folks we have in Congress for the most part don't understand business or how to run a buisness. They got us into this mess and I don't trust them to be able to solve it. What we have now is socalism at its worse. Poor leadership, entitlement mentallity and a growing unproductive workforce.
    Last edited by Franco; 02-05-2009 at 11:27 AM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  5. #15
    Senior Member precisionlabradors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Booty View Post
    The bailout makes little sense to me too! I've stated on similar threads what I feel is wrong with it. to recap; it will NOT stimulate the economy but cost us financially much more than we can afford. The real problems need to be addresses, not have money thrown at them. The USA can not be competitve in mfg-ing because our Labor Unions makes us uncompetitve. Look at the U S Auto Makers for a start. Instaed of trying to bail out a broken business model, moves need to be made that will make them competitve. Getting rid of the entitlement mentallity and limiting the power of the unions would be a great start. A REAL stimulus package would be one that would encourage businessses to reinvest and grow. Tax breaks for business would jump start any part of the country experiencing a slow down. This would also create more taxes as these business grow, hire and spend. Next, give tax payers a break so that they feel good about buying things they want from luxury items to esstentials. Let the free economy reign because we need less government, not more. As i've said before, both parties are the culprits. However, this TRILLION dollar plus bill will bury us because it is nothing more than a liberal spending bill that is NOT going to stimulate anything. The American people know it and that is why most are against it.The biggest thing we can do is place strict term limits on Congress. Lets get rid of the career politicians. McCain said the same thing last night and I've been saying it forever. The folks we have in Congress for the most part don't understand business or how to run a buisness. They got us into this mess and I don't trust them to be able to solve it.
    i see what you're saying. if i understand, you believe it would make more sense to give tax breaks to stimulate spending rather than giving money to corporations whose business models have failed due to poor marketing or crappy products, etc. that makes sense.

    from what i understand, the bailout is aimed to rescue failing businesses, thus keeping employees employed so that they can spend, right? the proponents of the bailout think that if nobody has jobs it will hurt the economy more than stimulating spending through tax cuts, right?

    like i said, it seems that it is kept huge and ambiguous to shirk accountability. i really want to educate myself here.

    does anybody have a link to the projected beneficiaries of the bailout?
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    Last edited by precisionlabradors; 04-26-2011 at 03:23 PM.

  6. #16
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    ...........The media is creating most of this economic meltdown by scaring everybody! We need to return to a Free Market Economy and let things sort themselves out.
    Take a look at this page of economic indicators and dig into the summary data too. http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/briefroom/BriefRm

    No way the media created this problem. A Republican administration just authorized bailing out the banking industry to the tune of $700 billion. Large banks are failing. Investments have decline 30+% on average. Home values and foreclosures are at an unprecedented level and its the medias' fault. Come on.

    What do you think will happen if the government just backs away from the current economic situation? Most economists are saying it will be another major depression. That's the alternative that you want?

    How would Louisiana do without all the government subsidzize and FEMA bailout $$$'s. Your state gets $1.85 federal dollars in return for every federal tax dollar contributed. I sure can see how that helps boost your local economy.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    [quote=precisionlabradors;396214]
    from what i understand, the bailout is aimed to rescue failing businesses, thus keeping employees employed so that they can spend, right? the proponents of the bailout think that if nobody has jobs it will hurt the economy more than stimulating spending through tax cuts, right?


    The problem here is that it is a very expensive band-aide. Huge money thrown at the problem rather than being tough, telling voters what they don't want to hear and fixing the problem. All that today's career politician knows how to do is pander to the voters. That goes back to the old saying that voters get the government they deserve. This country has more uneducated voters than any other country so, it is no surprise we have what we have.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  8. #18
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Here are some real issues that need to be addressed and not have money thrown at it;American investors no longer trust Wall Street. A rebound of the stock market is NOT a given and this is not a cyclical thing, it is broken.Because of Labor Unions, we can not mfg anything worth a crap. Our Immigration Laws have been abused since the end of WW2. They need to be severly over-hauled as the times have changed. How many BILLION a year is this problem costing and why won't anyone on the hill address the issue with anything other than Amnisty? We need to look hard at making some amendments to the Constitution that would include who can vote. That would be a great start. Too many voting for who they think will provide a free ride and it is currently and will continue to destroy us.
    Last edited by Franco; 02-05-2009 at 11:55 AM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  9. #19
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    The Republicans are doing the right thing at the moment--but I don't recall all that many of them doing the right thing under the Bush administration (a few, but not many, and frankly of those I think a lot were doing it for show, and I believe I recall at least one that said as much--I'll have to figure out how to look it up). The democrats on the Hill are not what they say they are (surprise, surprise), but neither are the Republicans (surprise, surprise).
    Get your jab in but it never could have passed without the Democratic controlled Congress.
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Take a look at this page of economic indicators and dig into the summary data too. http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/briefroom/BriefRm

    No way the media created this problem. A Republican administration just authorized bailing out the banking industry to the tune of $700 billion. Large banks are failing. Investments have decline 30+% on average. Home values and foreclosures are at an unprecedented level and its the medias' fault. Come on.

    What do you think will happen if the government just backs away from the current economic situation? Most economists are saying it will be another major depression. That's the alternative that you want?

    How would Louisiana do without all the government subsidzize and FEMA bailout $$$'s. Your state gets $1.85 federal dollars in return for every federal tax dollar contributed. I sure can see how that helps boost your local economy.
    The FEMA money is going mostly into New Orleans, not the state. This area didn't get any FEMA money, we have less than 3% unemployment. That FEMA $ is going to the Democrats in NewOrleans, you know the ones with the entitlement mentallity. The ones that blamed Bush for Katrina. That's why southcentral La. an area that doesn't put up with handouts is still thriving. Home values are stable, have not decreased and people here work for their money. We hate BIG gooberment!If the badly run banks fail there are plenty of well run ones that will survive. We don't need to bailout failure. For what, so they can fail again? And yes, the media is fueling the flames. We are running a huge campaign telling out listeners not to buy into what the media is telling everyone about the economy. The national media is in Obomo's pocket and they are helping him get the sick stimulus bill passed.
    Last edited by Franco; 02-05-2009 at 12:23 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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