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Thread: Democrats, I have to ask...

  1. #31
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    American union membership in the private sector has in recent years fallen under 9% levels not seen since 1932. Workers seem uninterested in joining, and strike activity has almost faded away. The labor force in unionized automobile and steel plants, for example, has fallen dramatically. In another example, Construction trades now only represent approximately 14% of the labor market. The inability to prevent non-union companies from taking significant market share has undercut union membership.

    Union labor is not the cause of our economic problems as some would have us believe. Maybe you can throw some of the blame on the unions in the auto industry but there problems started back in the late 40's and early 50's when those crapy imports started to show. Detroit laughed instead of retooling and the imports retooled and now they are laughing.

  2. #32
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backpasture View Post
    The Congressional Budget Office projects over 75% of the money in the House bill will be spent in the next 18 months.http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=204
    One of the problems is that it will takes months before the cash starts flowing. The second is most of the jobs are construction. That is good for the construction workers but what about all the other workers?

    What about documented/undocumented workers that are sending the majority of their paychecks out of the country? That money leaves this country and our economy.

    Also, many of these infrastructure projects have been waiting for funding for years because they didn't get funding because of lack of merit. They have been reporting in my local paper on how local officials have been contacted by one of our US Senators for a wish list of projects to be funded. Just because the Feds are looking to pass out copious amounts of our current and future tax dollars does not "fix" our economic problems.

    An immediate tax holiday would put money in the taxpayers pocket at their next paycheck. The problem is get "us" to spend the money instead of save it.

    I am completely against giving people who do not pay taxes a tax refund.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  3. #33
    Senior Member backpasture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    An immediate tax holiday would put money in the taxpayers pocket at their next paycheck. The problem is get "us" to spend the money instead of save it.
    That is exactly the problem. And, that is why spending is more effective for jumpstarting the economy than tax cuts.

    The reason that the Senators have been asking local officials for a wish list is because they want to fund the so called 'shovel ready' projects. The goal is to get the money flowing as fast as possible. They are doing that to address the very first point that you raised, that 'it will take months before the cash starts flowing'.

    As for non-construction jobs, there is some in the stimulus for that, though not as much as there was in the original bill (for example, a major IT infrastucture project for the CDC -- the type of project that would employee highly skilled engineers, and provide the CDC with a data/IT backup platform that it desperately needs.)
    The United States Imports 70% of Our Oil.
    What's the Plan?

  4. #34
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    Better figure this into your economic equation - the Obama Administration has directed a 10% cut in the Fiscal Year 2009 budget. For reference the Fiscal Year started almost 6 months ago. That will do some interesting things for the economy not to mention have a adverse effect on National Defense.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020202618.html

    Quote Originally Posted by backpasture View Post
    That is exactly the problem. And, that is why spending is more effective for jumpstarting the economy than tax cuts.

    The reason that the Senators have been asking local officials for a wish list is because they want to fund the so called 'shovel ready' projects. The goal is to get the money flowing as fast as possible. They are doing that to address the very first point that you raised, that 'it will take months before the cash starts flowing'.

    As for non-construction jobs, there is some in the stimulus for that, though not as much as there was in the original bill (for example, a major IT infrastucture project for the CDC -- the type of project that would employee highly skilled engineers, and provide the CDC with a data/IT backup platform that it desperately needs.)

  5. #35
    Senior Member backpasture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCreek View Post
    Better figure this into your economic equation - the Obama Administration has directed a 10% cut in the Fiscal Year 2009 budget. For reference the Fiscal Year started almost 6 months ago. That will do some interesting things for the economy not to mention have a adverse effect on National Defense.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020202618.html
    I have to admit, I have a hard time keeping up on whether Republicans are upset that we are increasing spending, and when they are upset that we are cutting it..... As near as I can tell the current method is to look at whether the Obama adminstration has proposed the increase/cut, then take the opposite position.
    The United States Imports 70% of Our Oil.
    What's the Plan?

  6. #36
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backpasture View Post
    That is exactly the problem. And, that is why spending is more effective for jumpstarting the economy than tax cuts.

    The reason that the Senators have been asking local officials for a wish list is because they want to fund the so called 'shovel ready' projects. The goal is to get the money flowing as fast as possible. They are doing that to address the very first point that you raised, that 'it will take months before the cash starts flowing'.

    As for non-construction jobs, there is some in the stimulus for that, though not as much as there was in the original bill (for example, a major IT infrastucture project for the CDC -- the type of project that would employee highly skilled engineers, and provide the CDC with a data/IT backup platform that it desperately needs.)
    So, growing our goverment larger is going to "save" our country? The 300 employees laid-off by one of the larger healthcare systems in central Ohio are going to relocated and retrain for IT jobs in Washington? Or, wait for a "shovel ready" infrastructure project to get off the ground sometime in the next 18 months?

    I know why a US Senator wants local "shovel ready" projects. Nothing like having a few "monuments" in every community come elction time. The term "shovel ready" is a joke! Our dem senator who is on his first term is seeking a list of projects. Our repub sneator who is retiring isn't seeking a list. My local city and county are coming up with projects they "think" will get funded. This bill is just a fat hog waiting to make us taxpayers squeel for years to come!

    Federally mandated loans got us in this mess and this bill will just create another mess without "fixing" our economy.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  7. #37
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    I think you are missing the big point, this is a significant cut to defense spending, half way through the fiscal year and in the middle of a war. Oh yeah, don't forget Iran launched a satellite, is developing a significant nuclear capability and the list goes on. Of course this is "Change" but not that I can believe in.

    Quote Originally Posted by backpasture View Post
    I have to admit, I have a hard time keeping up on whether Republicans are upset that we are increasing spending, and when they are upset that we are cutting it..... As near as I can tell the current method is to look at whether the Obama adminstration has proposed the increase/cut, then take the opposite position.

  8. #38
    Senior Member backpasture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCreek View Post
    I think you are missing the big point, this is a significant cut to defense spending, half way through the fiscal year and in the middle of a war. Oh yeah, don't forget Iran launched a satellite, is developing a significant nuclear capability and the list goes on. Of course this is "Change" but not that I can believe in.
    The supposed 'cut' in the defense budget is a myth. Obama is actually increasing the defense budget.
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...gan/index.html


    The administration is not giving the Pentagon the full amount it requested and so Kagan claims that is a 'cut'.
    Last edited by backpasture; 02-09-2009 at 06:48 PM.
    The United States Imports 70% of Our Oil.
    What's the Plan?

  9. #39
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    Not giving the agency responsibile for defense of the Nation the full amount it requested but it is not a cut. That sounds like fuzzy math to me. BTW I have over 30 years in uniform, I know a cut when I see it. Lived through it twice, 1976-1980 and 1993-2000. Go ahead and get the last word, I'm out of here going back to training dogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by backpasture View Post
    The supposed 'cut' in the defense budget is a myth. Obama is actually increasing the defense budget.
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...gan/index.html


    The administration is not giving the Pentagon the full amount it requested and so Kagan claims that is a 'cut'.

  10. #40
    Senior Member backpasture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCreek View Post
    I know a cut when I see it. .
    If you get more money than you got last year, your budget has not been cut. It has been increased. There is nothing 'fuzzy' about that.
    The United States Imports 70% of Our Oil.
    What's the Plan?

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