Has the "Lean Mac" Effect Changed....

[Richard Halstead]

I have been looking at the National Finalists Open and Amateur since 2001.
There has been 133 different dogs finishing a AKC National Event. Lean Mac was the top sire during this era or the sires sire. I will have the final count by Monday. There are a lot good dogs that title but it's looking like the Lean Mac dogs are a large % of those finishing a National. What do you think?

[ladylwyer]

I'm guessing he also produced the most litters and a larger percentage of pups went to field trial homes which would have an impact on the % of numbers competing in field trials and national events as to other sires.

[BonMallari]

Richard ,without seeing the actual numbers I think your premise will probably hold up, but we are also now in the era of LM being the grandsire or even great grand sire of the dogs competing. the unscientific poll I tried the other day showed me some of the dogs owned by members here on RTN and the trend toward other sires, but LM still casts a long shadow on the game...

[Howard N]

Richard, have you done a similar analysis with Honcho?

Honcho was the prepotent stud in his day and he cast a long shadow in our game also.

He lived in the day of no frozen or chilled semen so he had to meet the mothers of his pups, so there may be some apples to oranges comparison there.

[Shayne Mehringer]

Richard, have you done a similar analysis with Honcho?

Honcho was the prepotent stud in his day and he cast a long shadow in our game also.

He lived in the day of no frozen or chilled semen so he had to meet the mothers of his pups, so there may be some apples to oranges comparison there.

From a "batting average" standpoint - number of FC offspring relative to number of breedings... no stud will ever touch Honcho as a producer.

SM

[HiRollerlabs]

A couple of years ago at the Nat'l Open, Lean Mac had sired something like 34 of the qualified dogs. I know he still had quite a few at the 2008 Nat'l Open.

[BonMallari]

From a "batting average" standpoint - number of FC offspring relative to number of breedings... no stud will ever touch Honcho as a producer.

SM

I think you are right, but it sure would be fun to research the top 5..got any guess on the other four

[trog]

Best producing sire of all time Ebonstar Lean Mac
Best producing Dam of all time Candlewood's "Lottie"

I don't care how you cut it. these two dogs and their pedigree which includes "Honcho" in the case of "Lottie" and the likes have produced.

Give me an agruement of any other sire or dam or for that matter and kennel that has produced more field trial titled dogs than Candlewood

I don't care where the pups went or how many times they were bred. I happen to own a FC from Lean Mac and Be Be (full sister to "Lottie") five FC's or AFC's in one litter
Plus another Lean Mac bitch
I trial them, hunt them on pheasants mayben 70 days a year

Now I am not a big shot, unlimited money, send to the pro, type of guy,
Taught school for 33 years so you should know

People he was a great producer - get over it
Lottie was a great dam and her offspring have been great and great producers
trog

[BonMallari]

Best producing sire of all time Ebonstar Lean Mac
Best producing Dam of all time Candlewood's "Lottie"

I don't care how you cut it. these two dogs and their pedigree which includes "Honcho" in the case of "Lottie" and the likes have produced.

Give me an agruement of any other sire or dam or for that matter and kennel that has produced more field trial titled dogs than Candlewood

I don't care where the pups went or how many times they were bred. I happen to own a FC from Lean Mac and Be Be (full sister to "Lottie") five FC's or AFC's in one litter
Plus another Lean Mac bitch
I trial them, hunt them on pheasants mayben 70 days a year

Now I am not a big shot, unlimited money, send to the pro, type of guy,
Taught school for 33 years so you should know

People he was a great producer - get over it
Lottie was a great dam and her offspring have been great and great producers
trog

Trog, relax you are preaching to the choir, no one here is challenging LM, his blood flows in 3 of our 5 dogs. I just agreed with statistically Honcho wasnt bred as often as LeanMac...LM is to retrievers what Storm Cat is to thoroughbred horse racing, he IS THE MOST PROLIFIC STUD OF RETRIEVERS OF ALL TIME...dont think that will ever be challenged at least not in my lifetime

I will challenge best dam of all time...FC AFC Nakai Anny

[Linas Danilevicius]

This was posted on the Dancing Dog forum today by "BoomerRang" (credit goes to BoomerRang for research) who looked at the 2008 National for well known Sires and Dams:

"Here is a list of Sires with 2 or more progeny entered in the 2008 National Open:

Ebonstar Lean Mac: 13
FargoII: 6
Fordland's Bored Out Ford: 5
Carbon Copy of Horn Creek: 4
Chena River Chavez: 4
Code Blue: 4
Creek Robber: 4
Maxx's Suprise: 4
Abe's Ebony And Ivory: 3
Tiger McBunn: 3
Dare To Dream(Cosmo): 2
DB's Cracker of Clubmead: 2
Hilltop's Hayseed(Bubba): 2

Dam's With 2 or More Progeny Entered:

Candlewood's Rita Reynolds: 2
Case Harded Colors: 2
Iron Lines Annie Oakley: 2
M And M's Buns of Steel: 2
Ms Mischief Tanks Harley Alot: 2
Rebel Ridge Up All Nite: 2"

Credit to BoomeRang Senior Member Dancing Dog forum.