The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: Is the USA the greatest country in the world?

  1. #31
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    please fill me in on "fact"
    By far the dominant world power over the last 400 years has been the Brits. the british empire covered 1/4 of the worlds population for over 200 years. i was the Brits who abolished the slave trade in the 1820's 40 years before the civil war
    i would be interested to see who tpaschal30 thinks the Americans have freed from tyranny.
    by the way I like your signature attributed to socrates wasnt it?

    For a good part of those 400 years the Brits WERE the Tyrants.
    1776 Regards.
    ________________________________
    Dan Cram
    No longer live in Iowa but I have a new Bay Dog!!

    Skywatcher Salem Orchard Hard "Cider"

  2. #32
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dover, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    ...Not to mention winning the cold war and stopping the spread of Communism

    We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  3. #33
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, MD
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.
    You have a point there. We stopped it the overt cold war. Khrushchev said they would take us without firing a shot. We may have just shot ourselves.

  4. #34
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West Twin Cities Metro, MN
    Posts
    2,149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.
    News Flash: Communism is dead. Lek Wolenska, John Paul and Ronald Reagan killed it. It reached its ultimate absurdity and the three of them pushed it over the edge.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  5. #35
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dover, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    News Flash: Communism is dead. Lek Wolenska, John Paul and Ronald Reagan killed it. It reached its ultimate absurdity and the three of them pushed it over the edge.
    I disagree, they won the cold war, they didn't kill communism.

    Is socialsm closer to communism or capitalism?
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  6. #36
    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    sydney australia
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Stoney,
    While your input is certainly welcome, my question was directed more toward U.S. citizens in an effort to see which of us believe that we live in the greatest country in the world and which of us do not. If possible, I would prefer that this not turn into a discussion of the attributes of the various countries of the world but simply address the question.
    Thanks,
    Matt
    sorry Matt
    didnt mean to ambush your thread I just assumed a "greatest" "greater than' question would recquire a comparison

    tpaschal30
    Im not sure that iraq and Afganistan would consider themselves liberated
    also I dont think you would find to many serious historians who would agree that the US liberated western europe x 2. the Russians lost 23 million people fighting the germans in WW2 and did the vaste bulk of the fighting. In WW1 the US didnt get involved militarily until 1917
    Alot of countrys contributed to liberating europe in the world wars and it is insulting to have their efforts disparaged as insignificent. Here is a break down of who did the sacraficing for liberation
    Country Population 1939 Military deaths Civilian deaths Jewish Holocaust deaths Total deaths Deaths as % of 1939 population
    Albania[1] 1,073,000 28,000 200 28,200 2.63%
    Australia[2] 6,998,000 40,500 700 41,200 0.57%
    Austria[3] 6,653,000 40,500 65,000 105,500 1.59%
    Belgium[4] 8,387,000 12,100 49,600 24,400 86,100 1.02%
    Brazil[5] 40,289,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 0.00%
    Bulgaria[6] 6,458,000 22,000 3,000 25,000 0.38%
    Burma[7] 16,119,000 22,000 250,000 272,000 1.16%
    Canada[8] 11,267,000 45,300 45,300 0.40%
    Republic of China[9] 517,568,000 3,800,000 16,200,000 20,000,000 3.86%
    Cuba[10] 4,235,000 100 100 0.00%
    Czechoslovakia[11] 15,300,000 25,000 43,000 277,000 345,000 2.25%
    Denmark[12] 3,795,000 2,100 1,000 100 3,200 0.08%
    Estonia[13] 1,134,000 50,000 1,000 51,000 4.50%
    Ethiopia[14] 17,700,000 5,000 95,000 100,000 0.6%
    Finland[15] 3,700,000 95,000 2,000 97,000 2.62%
    France[16] 41,700,000 217,600 267,000 83,000 567,600 1.35%
    French Indochina[17] 24,600,000 1,000,000 1,000,000 4.07%
    Nazi Germany[18][19][20][21] 69,623,000 5,533,000 1,540,000 160,000 7,233,000 10.38%
    Greece[22] 7,222,000 20,000 220,000 71,300 311,300 4.31%
    Hungary[23] 9,129,000 300,000 80,000 200,000 580,000 6.35%
    Iceland[24] 119,000 200 200 0.17%
    Indian Empire[25] 378,000,000 87,000 1,500,000 1,587,000 0.42%
    Indonesia[26] 69,435,000 4,000,000 4,000,000 5.76%
    Iran[27] 14,340,000 200 200 0.00%
    Iraq[28] 3,698,000 1,000 1,000 0.03%
    Ireland[29] 2,960,000 200 200 0.00%
    Italy[30] 44,394,000 301,400 145,100 8,000 454,500 1.02%
    Japan[31] 71,380,000 2,120,000 580,000 2,700,000 3.78%
    Korea[32] 23,400,000 378,000 378,000 1.6%
    Latvia[33] 1,995,000 147,000 80,000 227,000 11.38%
    Lithuania[34] 2,575,000 212,000 141,000 353,000 13.71%
    Luxembourg[35] 295,000 1,300 700 2,000 0.68%
    Malaya[36] 4,391,000 100,000 100,000 2.28%
    Malta[37] 269,000 1,500 1,500 0.56%
    Mexico[38] 19,320,000 100 100 0.00%
    Micronesia[39] 1,900,000 57,000 57,000 3.00%
    Mongolia[40] 819,000 300 300 0.04%
    Netherlands[41] 8,729,000 21,000 176,000 104,000 301,000 3.44%
    Newfoundland[42] 300,000 1,000 100 1,100 0.37%
    New Zealand[43] 1,629,000 11,900 11,900 0.67%
    Norway[44] 2,945,000 3,000 5,800 700 9,500 0.32%
    Philippines[45] 16,000,000 57,000 90,000 147,000 0.92%
    Poland[46] 34,849,000 240,000 2,360,000 3,000,000 5,600,000 16.07%
    Portuguese Timor[47] 500,000 55,000 55,000 11.00%
    Romania[48] 19,934,000 300,000 64,000 469,000 833,000 4.22%
    Singapore[49] 728,000 50,000 50,000 6.87%
    South Africa[50] 10,160,000 11,900 11,900 0.12%
    Soviet Union[51] 168,500,000 10,700,000 11,400,000 1,000,000 23,100,000 13.71%
    Spain[52] 25,637,000 4,500 4,500 0.02%
    Sweden[53] 6,341,000 200 2,000 2,200 0.03%
    Switzerland[54] 4,210,000 100 100 0.00%
    Thailand[55] 15,023,000 5,600 300 5,900 0.04%
    United Kingdom[56] 47,760,000 382,700 67,100 449,800 0.94%
    United States[57] 131,028,000 416,800 1,700 418,500 0.32%
    Yugoslavia[58] 15,400,000 446,000 514,000 67,000 1,027,000 6.67%
    Totals 1,961,913,000 25,280,100 41,753,400 5,752,400 72,754,900 3.71%

    [hide]Human Losses of World War Two by Continent
    Considering all Soviet casualties as European, and all European colonial forces as European as well. Continent Civilian deaths Military deaths Total deaths
    Asia 24,203,300 6,093,100 30,296,400
    Europe 23,302,800 18,653,600 41,956,400
    Africa 95,000 16,900 111,900
    Oceania 57,700 52,400 110,100
    Americas 3,000 464,100 467,100
    Totals 47,661,800 25,280,100 72,941,900


    likewise in Iraq and Afganistan the British and Australian involvement although minor compared to the US is still significent. So far we have comprehensively failed to defeat the Taliban so liberation from tyranny is still some ways in the future(hopefully)
    Last edited by stoney; 02-14-2009 at 04:52 PM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    988

    Default

    Sorry Stoney but those countries you listed were getting their arses handed to them on a platter until the U.S. involvement. Maybe across the pond you measure success by how many lives you lose in a war but we like to go by the winner.

    You obviously have missed the uncovering of 100s of thousands of mass graves in Iraq and the latest FREE elections in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Brits and Aussies have been in those conflicts in a small scale, but being there in a small scale doesn't really get you the award for the most effort.
    ________________________________
    Dan Cram
    No longer live in Iowa but I have a new Bay Dog!!

    Skywatcher Salem Orchard Hard "Cider"

  8. #38
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NE Texas
    Posts
    2,944

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    The question was simple. Yes or no?
    Tried to put yes but to short so the need for this sentence.

    YES.

  9. #39
    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    sydney australia
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    Sorry Stoney but those countries you listed were getting their arses handed to them on a platter until the U.S. involvement. Maybe across the pond you measure success by how many lives you lose in a war but we like to go by the winner.

    .
    the war was far from lost before US involvement. the battle of britan had been won and montgomery had driven Rommel back to Tunsia. The 6th army was beeing wiped out at Stalingrad thus reducing the germans of 25% of there overall army. The US never participated in a major european battle before 1943 and that was at the Kasserine Pass and we all now who won that battle. To maintain that WW2 was won primarily by the USA is just plain wrong at least in europe. We measure success by who does the fighting and very clearly the Soviets and there allies did the lions share. Many US veterans would be appalled to hear you disparage Americas many allies in the fight against Nazism

  10. #40
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than trying to prove in some objective way that one country is superior to another. It's in the eyes of the beholder. However, I think you will find that America is more of a savior in its own eyes (or yours) than it is in the eyes of those you claim we have saved. While many Americans seem to blame this on the ingratitude of those we have saved, we seem incapable of putting ourselves in their shoes to understand.

    When I was a kid, I lived in Sicily for several years. Sicily never supported Mussolini and supported the Germans even less. They were generally ready to welcome the Allied invasion. After the war, America and the Allies were truly viewed as savior by much of Sicily's population. We would drive through areas in southern and eastern Sicily and people would wave to us happily.

    The story was completely different in Northern and western Sicily. Those were the areas that we bombed repeatedly when the offensive bogged down. Thousands of civilians were killed and their homes were destroyed. No such damage had been done by either the Germans or Mussolini and our bombings left us very unpopular.

    We actually weren't very concerned either way. Both our "salvation" of southern Sicily and our destruction of northern Sicily were incidental. We simply wanted to get through Sicily so that we could attack the mainland.

    Our invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis; it had to do with our need to establish our own military dominance. Our invasion of Afghanistan was all about our desire to obliterate the Taliban and we allied ourselves with warlords that are not very nice to gain tactical advantage. We did something similar in Afghanistan when we aliied ourselves with a man named Osama Bin Laden to help combat the Russians. What has happened to the people of both Iraq and Afghanistan along the way was incidental to our own objectives. Our complete failure to think about what would happen is the reason we are still fighting so many years later. A similar self interest has been at the heart or our prior invasions of other countries in the post WWII period as well as most of our foreign wars prior to WWII.

    In the eyes of most of the world, the US is, on one had, an ideal for freedom and the rule of law that is envied. On the other hand, however, it is seen as only supporting those ideals for Americans. It shows little regard for the rights of other countries and is seen as a more dangerous threat than any other force because of its ability to interfere at will with little risk to itself. The reality is that none of us would welcome invasion from another country to save us from ourselves. Much of what we have done historically in our foreign policy "saves" people in the same way that south american indians were "saved" by the missionaries -- their souls may have made it, but their bodies did not.

    By the way, for me, America remains my greatest country. But that doesn't mean we are necessarily a very good neighbor.

Similar Threads

  1. The second best country in the world
    By ducknwork in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 10-07-2009, 04:44 PM
  2. Different methods UK/USA
    By PuBS in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 08:00 AM
  3. Greatest athlete in the world? GDG
    By Danno in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: 08-22-2008, 11:53 AM
  4. Go Team Usa!!!!!!!!!!! gdg
    By Nor_Cal_Angler in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-09-2008, 10:05 AM
  5. Time for USA to get out of UN GDG
    By Bob Gutermuth in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-13-2008, 02:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •