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Thread: Change We Will GET

  1. #21
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Cigarettes are a scourge on society. In addition to the obvious personal health consequences, they do the following:

    Reduce productivity by causing serious health issues. People who smoke tend to miss more days of work because of bronchitis and other respiratory issues. Also, the smoke breaks that are taken each day effect productivity.

    Someone has to pay for a great deal of the medical care caused by smoking-related ailments. Research tells us that most people who smoke tend to come from the lower socioeconomic levels. So, our tax dollars pay for a great deal of smoking-related medical care.

    Raise healthcare costs. Those smokers who are insured are costing the insurance industry more than non-smokers--someone has to make up the difference, so non-smokers often do.

    We all know the effects of cigarette smoking. And it has become socially unacceptable. If the taxes cause people to stop smoking, I'm all for them. Our society will be better off, both fiscally and health-wise.
    Marx, I don't believe anyone here suggested that smoking was a good thing. There's been an argument postulated that the federal tax on cigarettes is the reason they cost so much now, as well as general agreement that cigarette tax revenue, whether local, state or national level, has not been used for its intended purpose, and that is smoking cessation and preventative programs and treatment of smoking related illnesses. I'd be willing to bet cigarette taxes and states' profits from the tobacco settlements would have covered all those 'costs to society' you're ranting about and more. However the fact is that the revenue from taxes and big money tobacco suits has been treated like a cash cow for politicians to fund their pet pork projects.

    Although I think some of us will be in agreement that certain smokers are a scourge on society. ::::coughcoughObomo::coughcough:::

    And as I noted earlier, it seems kind of hypocritical to me that the limousine liberals, the supposed champion of the lower socio economic classes and minorities, want to tax smokers. A group mostly made up of minorities and/or lower socioeconomic classes.

    Frankly I agree with Gerry Clinchy, I think weed and crack and meth and all those other ghetto drugs should be legalized and tax the hell out of them. Gets rid of the dealers and thug culture that's grown up around them, and provides a steady stream of revenue for addiction treatment. I have no idea how you could do it, but weed would be a good start. To me it's no worse than booze. No man that was stoned ever beat his wife or shot someone over a 40 like drunks do daily. And what an economic stimulus! ROTFLMAO
    Last edited by Julie R.; 02-15-2009 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    quote=M Remington;400779]Cigarettes are a scourge on society. [/quote]

    So many more things that deserve the title "scourge": Alcoholism, drug abuse, AIDS.

    People who smoke tend to miss more days of work because of bronchitis and other respiratory issues.
    That's probably on the increase over the past several years, since smokers must go outside the building (in most cases) if they want to smoke

    Also, the smoke breaks that are taken each day effect productivity.
    Labor laws in our state require that all workers get a 15-minute break every four hours.

    Nobody would argue with the facts that cigarette smoking isn't good for you. OTOH, neither is unprotected sex or sharing of needles that lead to AIDS. Yet, while smoking has become
    socially unacceptable
    , we embrace "alternate lifestyles" and spend lots of money rehabbing drug abusers (quite possibly also
    tend to come from the lower socioeconomic levels
    ).

    If smoking is on a par with AIDS, why do we spend so much money on AIDS education ... and a lot of that money in undeveloped countries ... and much less on smoking education? I think Jeff hit the nail on the head when he connected that the states (whose cigarette taxes are typically very high) don't want to lose their revenues no matter how bad the habit may be for anyone's health.

    I'll admit to being a bit "sassy" in my response, but maybe my initial thought has merit. We spend millions (maybe hundreds of millions) on trying to enforce laws on prostitution. That has never been a very successful endeavor. Why not make it legal and tax it? Finally! a way to get many of our legislators to pay taxes
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy
    Nobody would argue with the facts that cigarette smoking isn't good for you. OTOH, neither is unprotected sex or sharing of needles that lead to AIDS. Yet, while smoking has become , we embrace "alternate lifestyles" and spend lots of money rehabbing drug abusers (quite possibly also ).

    If smoking is on a par with AIDS, why do we spend so much money on AIDS education ... and a lot of that money in undeveloped countries ... and much less on smoking education? I think Jeff hit the nail on the head when he connected that the states (whose cigarette taxes are typically very high) don't want to lose their revenues no matter how bad the habit may be for anyone's health.

    I'll admit to being a bit "sassy" in my response, but maybe my initial thought has merit. We spend millions (maybe hundreds of millions) on trying to enforce laws on prostitution. That has never been a very successful endeavor. Why not make it legal and tax it? Finally! a way to get many of our legislators to pay taxes
    ROTFLMAO

    You hit the nail on the head. Not just their whores, imagine all the tax revenue our drug using politicians would pay if drugs and prostitution were legalized. Like my favorite, hizzoner Marion "Bitch set me up" Barry, who's even now facing jail time for not paying his taxes while on parole. Smokers and whoremongers are the last minority it's PC to vilify. Even drug addicts are protected classes now.

    "Hand over those Kools NOW! You didn't pay enough tax on them!"

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    ROTFLMAO

    You hit the nail on the head. Not just their whores, imagine all the tax revenue our drug using politicians would pay if drugs and prostitution were legalized. .
    And they couldn't even claim that they "forgot" to pay the tax since it will work just like other businesses ... it will be built into the retail price

    Why haven't we thought of this sooner?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  5. #25
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I also feel that most drugs and prostitution should be legalized and taxed. Apart from the benefits of better regulation on practices and distribution, and tax revenues, this would also dramatically reduce our prison population which is now largely the product of drug laws. I'm not saying that many of those people wouldn't find another road into jail, but I still suspect the numbers would be greatly reduced with substantial savings in government budgets.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Are you suggesting it's going up because of the $0.39/pack federal tax?
    Jeff, anytime the Feds increase SIN taxes, states follow with their own set.
    The Feds just set the benchmark. How long do you think it will be before his
    PEEPS realize the Mesiah is just Chavez Light???????????????? Personally I
    hope they all go down the rat hole with him.

    Can't Wait Regards

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    FApart from the benefits of better regulation on practices and distribution, and tax revenues, this would also dramatically reduce our prison population which is now largely the product of drug laws.

    So the drug laws are the problem and not the drug use or criminal behavior. How about you abstain from doing drugs in the first place.

    Once again, some one on the left does not want to accept personal responsibility. It's always something or someone else fault.

  8. #28
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    So the drug laws are the problem and not the drug use or criminal behavior. How about you abstain from doing drugs in the first place.

    Once again, some one on the left does not want to accept personal responsibility. It's always something or someone else fault.

    This is not just necessarily the left that feels this way. While there are drug offenders that should be in prison, there are far more that should not be taking up space and tax dollars. Drug crimes such as killings etc are crimes no matter if drugs are the motive or not. The very fact that marijuana is illegal and alcohol and tobacco are not is absurd. Other drugs, coke, meth, heroinÖare truly a health issue and addictions should be treated rather than locking someone up with professional criminals. You donít see alcoholics going to prison for possession of alcohol and the only difference is that alcohol is legal. It is MHO that alcohol does far more damage to society than drugs, and pot in particular, but you donít see much about it because the media only covers law breakers. The only time you see anything about alcohol is when there is a DUI accident. Growing up in South Florida in the 70ís I know first hand about a lot of the drug trade and know many people that were involved in it at the time and a good number who got caught and went to prison. Should they have gone, yes they broke the law, but several went for 20 years and believe me they were not a big threat to society smuggling pot. Funny that so many movies and people glorify bootleg liquor manufactures and runners during the prohibition yet pot growers and smugglers are evil. Also interesting that at several HT I have been at recently the big thing has been moonshine and not just with one or two people.
    Please donít paint all conservatives with the same brush. This is a large part of what is wrong with my party. It is assumed by the party leaders that to be conservative you MUST be for every conservative platform and that is simply not the case. I differ on several issues including drugs, abortion (not that I think it is right, I donít, but more that I donít believe it is a political issue because the main argument is religious and moral and I donít think the government has any business setting religious or moral standards), and particularly stem cell research (the use of embryonic stem cells is the issue and it goes to the republican abortion views and they are FAR form the same thing).
    BTW- not sure where he said the criminal activity was not a problem. Criminal activity is a crime weather drugs, guns, alcohol, or none of the above are involved. If drugs were treated as a health issue rather than a crime and they were not against the law the criminal element would not be involved with the dealing and therefore crimes involved with drugs. You don;t see moonshiners doing drive by shootings or having turf wars now do you? You are not going to have gangs controling drug sales if you can by a pack of pot at the local 7-11
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #29
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    What I dont understand is how a proven CANCER causing delivery system is allowed to be sold. Right now the brilliance of lawmakers have outlawed minibikes. Why you ask cause the are dangerous and serious harm could come from a crash Noooooo. Some of the paint used may contain lead and it seams that thousands of kids are currently, as we speak poisoning them selve by licking the paint off their minibikes. Cant we put a warning on minibikes that say dont lick or eat the paint. Because you may be ingesting a lead containing paint. Wouldnt a child have bigger problems if his only food source was a new minibike.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  10. #30

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    My statement was about personal responsibility. It does not matter what substance you are abusing alcohol, pot, meth or heroin. If you know the risks and still insist on trying it then you deal with the responsibilities. If you legalize any substance then then government has put its official stamp on it. It then makes money on it and then has a vested interest in people consuming that product.

    Take cigarets, in our state the law makers passed a law so that the cigaret tax is supposed to cover some child health care. Guess what the smoking rate is down and now they are whining that there is not enough money coming in from smoking.

    I have a good friend that has a daughter hooked on meth. He has done everything to help her to get off. She has been arrested more then 10 times and her last is the first time she is facing any serious jail time. The longest she has done is 1 month. She was facing 10 years but has worked a plea that once again requires no jail time, but the judge could still give her some. The point is very few people are in jail for drug minor drug offenses. You were either dealing or have such a long history (addict) that it may the only way off.

    By the way, my friend hopes she gets some time so that it may keep her away from the stuff long enough that she can finally kick it.

    I will say it again no matter what substance it is, it's about personal responsibility and that is the difference between and conservative and liberal. A liberal will usually blame the system, the law, society, economic status, lack of treatment or the persons childhood. Most conservatives will put the blame squarely on the individual.

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