Let's have Health Care like the UK

[Gerry Clinchy]

Are you ready to be taxed at French rates?

I would agree that it is only fair to compare health costs of various countries to their tax rates. While the health costs may appear to be lower, the subsidization of those costs may not be evident in the figures.

I believe the overall tax rate in Sweden is also quite high.

Perhaps the governments of other countries are more efficient than the U.S. government? I believe that the costs of Medicare greatly exceeded what was anticipated when the program was started.

One lesson I think we should have learned, when money must pass through a bureaucracy before actually getting to the end of the pipeline, there is a lot of room for the money to be used inefficiently.

[zeus3925]

Are you ready to be taxed at French rates?

In general, their health care system cost less to the consumer than ours even when you you factor in the taxes. But their costs are going up like everyone else's.

The French spend their public money on a lot of different things than we do. They are investing in high speed rail for instance. They are hugely expensive. But , they sure are nice. I rode one from Portier to Paris. 200 mph and as smooth as if you were sitting in your living room Lazy Boy.

[Pete]

It simple for countries who rely on us to protect them to spend their money on other things besides defense.
We crush all other nations in the charitable contrabution catagories
We crush all other nations in providing free medical to illegal alliens and food to people who don't have any for one reason or another.
There is not another nation on the face of this earth that blows money on other countries and their programs while neglecting our own problems like this country.
All you america haters are lucky to live here. when my son complains how rotten he has it I usually point him to the door just so he knows where its at if he wants to find a better place.

Pete

[Henry V]

Wow, so much to respond to.

Do people in UK that can afford private insurance buy it?. Yes, I am sure some do. What percentage, I don't know. Do you? So, don't those who can afford better insurance here have better access to medical care too. Don’t kid yourself.

Would the mandatory waiting period make the statistics look better than they actually are? Some of the people waiting would die before they get into the "official" medical statistics?

These sentences make no logical sense. Do you somehow think that a death while waiting will somehow exclude you from being counted as a death and thus improve mortality rate statistics? Sure, OK.

Think we don’t wait for care in the U.S. take a look at this http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b4042072.htm

While I understand citing cases to prove your point, I could also cite cases in the US where private insurers have made just as egregious decisions to deny treatment as public systems.

Do you want your medical decisions made by a government employee who reports to a political appointee? I don't understand why free people are so willing to give up their freedom so willingly.

So, having your medical decisions made by a for profit insurance company bureaucrat makes you feel better about our system? Exactly, what freedom would we be giving up? If you are fortunate enough to have an employer who offers health care insurance, what real freedom do you have that would not be available under a universal payer system? I am sure most of us can now choose between one or two plans at best. Once you have that insurance card, what freedom do you have to choose your clinic, etc?

People don’t have to go on Medicare, do they? They can choose to forgo it and enroll in private insurance, can’t they? Why don’t they go totally private in huge numbers if it is such a bad program? Yes, most take the low cost system and those that can afford it choose a supplement plan. Imagine that, kind of like the UK.

If you don’t think that many thousands of U.S. citizens aren’t going outside the U.S. for health care take a look at this article or search “medical tourism”. http://health.usnews.com/articles/he...al-travel.html

In general, their health care system cost less to the consumer than ours even when you you factor in the taxes. But their costs are going up like everyone else's.

This can’t possibly be true It is counter to what the CATO institute says and we simply can’t be spending twice what all other countries spend on medical treatment in terms of GDP. It can’t be true. The stats are wrong. Our system is the best. The best for someone at least.

It is clear that those of you defending the current system and are OK with the facts that we pay far more than any other country, that we have overall mediocre outcomes from these expenses, and that we still have lots of uninsured people. As I said before, I’ll take a system that costs substantially less and has just as good of outcomes and there are many good models to follow. A little more rationing (maybe) and a little longer wait (maybe) might be a worthy tradeoff. Stay the course and we will soon spend 20% of GDP on health care. We will just have to disagree about this.

[Gerry Clinchy]

Quote:
Would the mandatory waiting period make the statistics look better than they actually are? Some of the people waiting would die before they get into the "official" medical statistics?
These sentences make no logical sense. Do you somehow think that a death while waiting will somehow exclude you from being counted as a death and thus improve mortality rate statistics? Sure, OK.

It wouldn't change the mortality rates, but sure could cut down on the cost factors

[tpaschal30]

Remember this stat above all.


"40% of cancer patients are never able to see an oncologist"

Remember never!!!

[FoggMoore]

It is my understanding that 20-25% of medical costs is billing expense. It seems like that might be a good place to start cutting costs.

[Patrick Johndrow]

And yet, despite all that terrible rationing (which also happens in the US), the UK still ranks 18th and the US ranks 37th as of 2000 by the WHO.

Wow...that is according to the World Health Organization…how do they rank the U.S. vs. UK in dental care?

[Bob Gutermuth]

If you really want to know how good the US healthcare system is, in comparison to the systems in Canada or the UK, you need only ask someone who has been thru a major disease. 2 yrs ago I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. Within 6 months of diagnosis, I went thru chemo, radiation and surgery and was Deo Gratia declared cancer free. My waits were in terms of a few weeks for the various tests, CT scans, PET scan, staging surgery, and treatments at U of Maryland one of the best cancer centers in the country. The Canadians and Brits can keep their system, had I been in either of those countries I would very likely be 6 ft under.

[Matt McKenzie]

In general, their health care system cost less to the consumer than ours even when you you factor in the taxes. But their costs are going up like everyone else's.

The French spend their public money on a lot of different things than we do. They are investing in high speed rail for instance. They are hugely expensive. But , they sure are nice. I rode one from Portier to Paris. 200 mph and as smooth as if you were sitting in your living room Lazy Boy.

I notice you quoted but didn't answer the question. I've ridden the TGV numerous times, but I'm not willing to be taxed at the French rate to have bullet trains here.