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Thread: Let's have Health Care like the UK

  1. #31
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem paying higher taxes if we were actually cutting spending and increasing revenues with the intent of paying off the national debt. However, I believe that raising taxes (especially for the evil, disgusting "rich" and those awful corporations) is counterproductive in that it will retard investment, but it doesn't matter. The truth is that politicians on both sides of the aisle buy votes with our money.
    As I have seen it over the years the voters abhor a situation where governments pay off debt or set aside a surplus. As for the characterization of the rich and the corporations--those are your terms not mine. I'm glad you want to pay more taxes to reduce debt while the Leona Helmsleys of the world go free.

    Some times the enemy is us. We love it when our representatives go porking for us. We treat them like heroes when they bring home the bacon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    The underlying question in all of these political threads is this: do you want your government more involved in your life or less? I think that for the most part they are all a bunch of idiots interested primarily in reelection and party power and the less influence they have on my life and that of my family, the better.
    Though out my life I have been involved in working as a citizen by getting involved in the government's life, instead. How about you Hookset? You look like you'd make a pretty good candidate to me. You certainly have a lot of ideas and passion. How about running and help to see the bozos out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Here's an idea: stop comparing the US with other countries. It's apples and bicycles. Pick any ten categories that you think we are particularly weak in, find a country that beats us in all ten, pack a suitcase and find your happiness.
    First in response to the title of this thread, I threw in the French example as one that works. Secondly the first amendment protects yours and my right to free speech. Nowhere does it say that I have to move if I disagree with Hookset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    the US have room for improvement? Absolutely! But the things that made this country great are the things that make us least like France or UK or any other country on the planet.
    Maybe you need to travel some. France in particular is more like us because our revolution inspired theirs. Their political thought inspired ours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Regardless of what the World Health Organization says, the highest quality health care is here in the US.
    Show me the numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Many times more people travel to the US every year for health care than from the US for health care.
    Yep, I have seen those folks from Muslim lands down at Mayo but we aren't looking to Arabs for solutions--at least I hope not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    If we suck so bad, move!
    Nothing that I have posted before has been derisive of this country. I have a right to say what ever I wish to say in this country.

    This is my land as well as yours. My forefathers fought to establish that right for you.

    My mother's family arrived in North America in 1635. We came to what is now the US in the height of the Revolution and we didn't come to throw the Brits a luau.

    We have family that was on the Lewis and Clark expedition. I am a direct descendant of several of the men of La Croix's Company of the Michigan Territorial Militia that fought in the Battle of the Raisin in the War of 1812. We had family in the Civil War, WWI,and Korea. My father built B-24s during WWII. I drew digital maps used in cruise missiles and flight systems during the Gulf Wars.

    You don't like what I have to say? After you, Alphonse.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 02-16-2009 at 06:20 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  2. #32
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    2004 numbers


    A third of the medical costs for the
    uninsured are uncompensated.
    About a quarter of the total medical
    care costs are paid directly by the
    uninsured out-of-pocket, however
    people who are uninsured for the full
    year pay for over a third of their care
    (35%) out-of-pocket—a considerably
    higher share than paid by either the
    full-year or part-year insured
    populations, who paid for just under
    20% of their care out-of-pocket.

    In 2004, uncompensated care is
    estimated to be $40.7 billion. Adults
    uninsured for the full year receive the
    majority of uncompensated care,
    $26.3 billion (65% of the total amount).
    Children are less likely to be
    uninsured and their average health
    care costs are less than adults as well.
    Uncompensated care represents 2.7%
    of the projected total personal health
    care spending for 2004 of $1.5 trillion.


    sourcr
    http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/...l-Spending.pdf
    Uncompensated health care costs are only 1% more than shrinkage cost in the retail sector. From wiki

    n financial accounting the term inventory shrinkage (sometimes truncated to shrink) is the loss of products between point of manufacture or purchase from supplier and point of sale. The total shrink percentage of the retail industry in the United States was 1.7% of sales in 2001 according to the University of Florida's, National Retail Security Survey.[
    Are we on the verge of a shrinkage crises in America!!!
    Last edited by tpaschal30; 02-17-2009 at 05:13 AM. Reason: spelling

  3. #33
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    My son is currently living in Finland with his Finnish wife and they have socialized medicine. What basically happens if you have an elective surgical problem, it does not get done unless you pay for it by yourself. For example, her father has severe attacks of tachycardia. They put him on medication and he is now on disability. I asked about getting an ablation. Well, they don't offer it unless you go somewhere else. My friend had it here, she went on meds, they doubled the meds but the attacks came more often and she went to the ER and they zapped her and that feels like you are dead. She had the ablation and it will be gone forever. Back to normal activity. The Father now is in his early 50's and will the rest of his life with the quality of his life compromised and it could be fatal at any time. Anything complicated and you will be on a list forever.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  4. #34

    Smile

    Yes, but just think, now everyone will be able to afford substandard health care.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Sarge,
    Feel free to address me by my name as I sign every post with it.
    A few things: to suggest that I travel more is ridiculous. I would suspect that I have visited more countries than 99.9% of the people who frequent this board.
    Yes, you have the right to speak your mind about your country and your government and I by no means want to stifle that. In fact, I've spent the last 22 years of my life serving to preserve that right for all of us. I just find it tiresome to hear nothing but negativity toward the US coming from some corners. If that is an unfair representation of you, I apologize. Sometimes the rhetoric of those of you that fall left of center kind of all blends together and becomes one high-pitched whine to me. I'm sure the posts made by those of us who fall right of center have a similar effect on you. I simply feel that those who want the US to be like any other country just need to save us all the hassle and move there.
    As far as running for office, I don't believe that I would be electable at any level due to my abrasive and sometimes uncompromising nature. To be completely honest, I (like most of us here) take the lazy approach and throw rotten fruit from the bleachers. It's so much easier to sit around and complain than to actually take action to make things better. I'm working to take a more active role in the process, but sometimes think that my definition of "better" is far different than that of the majority of my fellow citizens. All of us (those of us who actually pay attention and who actually care about what is happening around us) want what we feel is best for the country, we just disagree on what "best" is.
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

  6. #36
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Matt, I see you are in the Navy. Thank you for your service!!

    I like you care deeply about this country. I will not however ask anyone that disagrees with me to leave. My own political outlook is a mixture of conservative, liberal and moderate thought. I believe there is wisdom in all of them that can better the country.

    I agree with you when you say we have one hell country. But we will end up frozen in gridlock if we choose Franken or Limbaugh as our prophet. No question the country is swimming in one big pool of alligators right now. We need to talk to each other if the republic is to survive. United we stand, divided we fall.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  7. #37
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Matt, I see you are in the Navy. Thank you for your service!!

    I like you care deeply about this country. I will not however ask anyone that disagrees with me to leave. My own political outlook is a mixture of conservative, liberal and moderate thought. I believe there is wisdom in all of them that can better the country.

    I agree with you when you say we have one hell country. But we will end up frozen in gridlock if we choose Franken or Limbaugh as our prophet. No question the country is swimming in one big pool of alligators right now. We need to talk to each other if the republic is to survive. United we stand, divided we fall.
    You need to stand for something. Being wishy washey and not seeing right and wrong is not standing for anything. Being judgemental is suddenly a bad word. Is good judgement not a virtue anymore!

  8. #38
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    You need to stand for something. Being wishy washey and not seeing right and wrong is not standing for anything. Being judgemental is suddenly a bad word. Is good judgement not a virtue anymore!
    The world ain't black or white. And picking and choosing from various colors is not wishy washy. Its the moderates that can cut through when the ideologues have become deaf, blind and vocal.

    I am for a society that runs well and functions harmoniously. I refuse to join either the Limbaughite fringe or the Frankenite fringe. They are merchants of hate and divisiveness. There's no wishy washy about that.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    My own political outlook is a mixture of conservative, liberal and moderate thought. I believe there is wisdom in all of them that can better the country.
    Everyone is different - I read everyone until they prove they are not fit to read - that includes many from all spectrums. What I find from reading your posts is you favor the latter 2 ideologies more than you favor the former, so to consider yourself using conservative principles is a stretch.

    Barry Goldwater was a Libertarian Conservative - Esteemed by all of us who are proud to call ourselves Conservative & many others

    Bob Dole was a typical moderate & look at KS & the US today -

    Jimmy Carter was/is a liberal - the Meddler gets my vote for the worst POTUS we have ever had - But give the latest edition 4 years, he may make Carter look good.

    You can't straddle the fence between these three ideologies without ending up with wounds.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    The world ain't black or white. And picking and choosing from various colors is not wishy washy. Its the moderates that can cut through when the ideologues have become deaf, blind and vocal.

    I am for a society that runs well and functions harmoniously. I refuse to join either the Limbaughite fringe or the Frankenite fringe. They are merchants of hate and divisiveness. There's no wishy washy about that.
    You right it is not all black and white. And on certain issues it is a hard call. Certain issues there is no middle ground. Like the death penalty and abortion. There is right and wrong, good and evil, and funny and sad. Our upbringings and experiences help us along with those judgements(if a wrong judgement does not kill us first). Most middle of the roaders just don't want to make the call for fear of offending or not being cool and PC. We make judgements every day. Who we associate with, what we do, where we go, and when we go. I just think judgement is given a bad name.

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