An Announcement on Genetic Testing and RTF Classifieds

[Chris Atkinson]

It's hard not to get discouraged at times, especially when you are sent PMs derogating a resource you have provided free of charge for the retriever community, as well as spent many hours trying to "play janitor" as in the case with Chris, or for myself, as Moderator, getting replies from people that are ticked off because their classified ad has been deleted because it does not follow the posted guidelines or their duplicate ads have been combined.

In regard to the Classified forums, I have "form letters" which are sent via PMs to users that don't follow the guidelines by not including "required" information or posting duplicate (sometimes even triplicate) ads. If everyone that posts an ad in the Classified forums would take just a minute or two to read the Stickys at the top of the forums which explain the guidelines for posting (and then follow the guidelines), the Classifieds could run very smoothly. Most of the forums are set up so that the ads are deleted after 60 days. If everyone would take the time to post that their item/litter/dog was sold, that would be a big help also. I do try to check all of the Classified forums once a day to make sure the few guidelines that Chris has in place are being followed.

For me, helping Chris as a Moderator on RTF, is just another way to give back to the sport and dogs I love so much. Chris has said to me many times after a problem has come up that he would understand if I ever wanted to quit. It's those times I find myself thinking of my signature line regarding "slinkies" and say to Chris "It's all good."

Thanks to those of you that alert us when the occasional spam is posted or there is a thread that might need to be monitored. With busy lives, it's not always possible to read each and every post

Hey Chris......"it's all good!"

Thanks Vicky,

It is all good.

I don't know if it takes all kinds...but we sure got 'em.

...."Everyone knows...it's slin-ky."

[Sharon Potter]

Thanks, Chris...now I'll be hearing the Slinky song in my head all night. (did I just age myself??)

Seriously, thanks for putting up with all of us...RTF is a great place.

[Gun_Dog2002]

I offer a free bitch slap service, err bitch check service for those too lazy and irresponsible to buy their own puppy. If anyone is interested.

/Paul

[paul young]

Chris & Vicky,

as we say in the shipyard;

"i don't know where they come from, and i don't know where they're going, but on their way, THEY PASS THRU HERE!"

thanks for making this the great resource that it is! i appreciate your efforts daily!-Paul

[Wingmaster01]

Perhaps I am just to simple minded on this stuff.

Now, far as I know the EIC and CNM are very terrible diseases and modern science has developed means to identify dogs that are carriers, afflicted etc and they have " TRUST WORTHY WEBSITES where in a prospective buyer can VERIFY certain health claims. OFA and CNM White list.

So you the breeder want to sell your litter of pups for say $1,500 a pup and make $10,000 on it, utopia I know but rounded off numbers are best.

Along comes Johnnie to the Retrievertraining.net website and sees all the FC's and purported health clearances in the pedigree but who doesn't have a clue what these things really mean nor where to verify and throws down the cash and off he goes with his first Lab pup. Four months later the dog starts walking weird, falling down etc. Takes it to the vet and low and behold it has EIC..GOT YA! Your ignorance Johnnie, you didn't do your due diligence, It happens.

Well, I think folks in the fancy should be more responsible. Fact is it only costs what $15.00 and a postage stamp to send your EIC results off to the OFA folks, but then you know that.

So what is the big deal here and all the fuss at RTF with simply requiring via a sentence on the site somewhere in the classified instructions that states that litter advertisers and stud dog advertisers post their health clearances with the numbers on EIC and CNM?

I am dumbfounded! Are you afraid to send the results off. Usually people that don't want to disclose are hiding something. Really don't give me thats between the breeder (seller) and (buyer) stuff. What needs to happen is that people in the community need to show more support and responsibity and post the results. I did so why can't the rest of them do it.

RTF can encourage participation with a simple sentence that states CNM and EIC clearance claims must be substantiated with a # from OFA or CNM. Thats all, they don't need to do any police work. Get er done and lets get on with life!

[Chris Atkinson]

Perhaps I am just to simple minded on this stuff.

Now, far as I know the EIC and CNM are very terrible diseases and modern science has developed means to identify dogs that are carriers, afflicted etc and they have " TRUST WORTHY WEBSITES where in a prospective buyer can VERIFY certain health claims. OFA and CNM White list.

So you the breeder want to sell your litter of pups for say $1,500 a pup and make $10,000 on it, utopia I know but rounded off numbers are best.

Along comes Johnnie to the Retrievertraining.net website and sees all the FC's and purported health clearances in the pedigree but who doesn't have a clue what these things really mean nor where to verify and throws down the cash and off he goes with his first Lab pup. Four months later the dog starts walking weird, falling down etc. Takes it to the vet and low and behold it has EIC..GOT YA! Your ignorance Johnnie, you didn't do your due diligence, It happens.

Well, I think folks in the fancy should be more responsible. Fact is it only costs what $15.00 and a postage stamp to send your EIC results off to the OFA folks, but then you know that.

So what is the big deal here and all the fuss at RTF with simply requiring via a sentence on the site somewhere in the classified instructions that states that litter advertisers and stud dog advertisers post their health clearances with the numbers on EIC and CNM?

I am dumbfounded! Are you afraid to send the results off. Usually people that don't want to disclose are hiding something. Really don't give me thats between the breeder (seller) and (buyer) stuff. What needs to happen is that people in the community need to show more support and responsibity and post the results. I did so why can't the rest of them do it.

RTF can encourage participation with a simple sentence that states CNM and EIC clearance claims must be substantiated with a # from OFA or CNM. Thats all, they don't need to do any police work. Get er done and lets get on with life!

So after all of the sentences you have sent to me and Vicky, in the end, all you wanted was for me to amend the requirements to state something like:

"If claims of EIC and CNM genetic clearances are made, certification numbers must be included."

Is that all you wanted? And the reason you called me irresponsible was for not including that in the text?

I have one more question, but I'll await your response to the first two Wingmaster.

Thanks, Chris (who has tried diligently to maintain a sense of integrity in the culture of RTF from the very beginning)

[TBell]

I would like to add that I have seen more than one advertisement for litters claiming that one or the other parent has been tested EIC clear and neither have. Please do your homework. Results on OFA are monitored, but we can't and won't police this or any other website that is claiming EIC clearances in their advertisements.

Katie,

How can one go about doing our homework on EIC results when there is no online database to confirm clearances?

The only option, I guess, would be to ask the owner to provide copies of their certified clearances. I would think that may be taken wrong by some owners and may prevent some from asking.

It would be so much easier for breeders to have the database online and accessible for all to see. Any plans?

Thanks,

Tammy Bell

[WRL]

Perhaps I am just to simple minded on this stuff.

Now, far as I know the EIC and CNM are very terrible diseases and modern science has developed means to identify dogs that are carriers, afflicted etc and they have " TRUST WORTHY WEBSITES where in a prospective buyer can VERIFY certain health claims. OFA and CNM White list.

So you the breeder want to sell your litter of pups for say $1,500 a pup and make $10,000 on it, utopia I know but rounded off numbers are best.

Along comes Johnnie to the Retrievertraining.net website and sees all the FC's and purported health clearances in the pedigree but who doesn't have a clue what these things really mean nor where to verify and throws down the cash and off he goes with his first Lab pup. Four months later the dog starts walking weird, falling down etc. Takes it to the vet and low and behold it has EIC..GOT YA! Your ignorance Johnnie, you didn't do your due diligence, It happens.

Well, I think folks in the fancy should be more responsible. Fact is it only costs what $15.00 and a postage stamp to send your EIC results off to the OFA folks, but then you know that.

So what is the big deal here and all the fuss at RTF with simply requiring via a sentence on the site somewhere in the classified instructions that states that litter advertisers and stud dog advertisers post their health clearances with the numbers on EIC and CNM?

I am dumbfounded! Are you afraid to send the results off. Usually people that don't want to disclose are hiding something. Really don't give me thats between the breeder (seller) and (buyer) stuff. What needs to happen is that people in the community need to show more support and responsibity and post the results. I did so why can't the rest of them do it.

RTF can encourage participation with a simple sentence that states CNM and EIC clearance claims must be substantiated with a # from OFA or CNM. Thats all, they don't need to do any police work. Get er done and lets get on with life!

And what you are wanting is for Chris and RTF to be the breeding police. Sure, remove all responsibility from the buyer. This attitude is why we now have 1.5 trillion dollars in stimulus packages.

I have EIC clearances on my dogs. I have not submitted them to OFA. I may or may not do so. I haven't really decided yet.

But I can assure you, soon as you "require" anything beyond the most simplest of clearances that more and more numbers will be made up by the cheaters.

And before you get started, as you obviously think YOU are an upstanding breeder, where are all the clearances of your dogs? Most people that want lots from others do relatively little themselves.

As I told a newbie breeder once, no matter how much you think you do or how greatly bred your litters are, there is always someone out there doing more and breeding better litters that thinks you don't do enough.

If a buyer is that interested in a litter, simply ask for the NUMBERS and copies of certificates. Any reputable breeder would be happy to provide them for potential buyers.

Personally for me, I may not send my numbers into OFA. I may just post them on my website.

WRL

[ErinsEdge]

If a buyer is that interested in a litter, simply ask for the NUMBERS and copies of certificates. Any reputable breeder would be happy to provide them for potential buyers.

I agree totally with WRL. If a buyer doesn't have the cahones to ask the breeder for a copy of the number if they need to see verification, then they don't want that litter bad enough. If the seller ignores the request for verification there is obviously something wrong and move on.

As far as OFA, mine are still standing in a stack. When I'm done with all of them I will probably will send them in but I haven't decided but I'm not going to pay full price if I don't have to.

The responsibility for the decision to buy is the buyers alone. Chris is not being paid to be the breeder police and as he has stated, like all classifieds, the host is not responsible for the content. You can't stop someone from posting a number that isn't correct; therefore that line you want is meaningless. This is a wonderful free service by Chris and how dare anyone call him out on it to fulfill their own needs and idea of ethics.

[Gun_Dog2002]

Perhaps I am just to simple minded on this stuff.

Now, far as I know the EIC and CNM are very terrible diseases and modern science has developed means to identify dogs that are carriers, afflicted etc and they have " TRUST WORTHY WEBSITES where in a prospective buyer can VERIFY certain health claims. OFA and CNM White list.

So you the breeder want to sell your litter of pups for say $1,500 a pup and make $10,000 on it, utopia I know but rounded off numbers are best.

Along comes Johnnie to the Retrievertraining.net website and sees all the FC's and purported health clearances in the pedigree but who doesn't have a clue what these things really mean nor where to verify and throws down the cash and off he goes with his first Lab pup. Four months later the dog starts walking weird, falling down etc. Takes it to the vet and low and behold it has EIC..GOT YA! Your ignorance Johnnie, you didn't do your due diligence, It happens.

Well, I think folks in the fancy should be more responsible. Fact is it only costs what $15.00 and a postage stamp to send your EIC results off to the OFA folks, but then you know that.

So what is the big deal here and all the fuss at RTF with simply requiring via a sentence on the site somewhere in the classified instructions that states that litter advertisers and stud dog advertisers post their health clearances with the numbers on EIC and CNM?

I am dumbfounded! Are you afraid to send the results off. Usually people that don't want to disclose are hiding something. Really don't give me thats between the breeder (seller) and (buyer) stuff. What needs to happen is that people in the community need to show more support and responsibity and post the results. I did so why can't the rest of them do it.

RTF can encourage participation with a simple sentence that states CNM and EIC clearance claims must be substantiated with a # from OFA or CNM. Thats all, they don't need to do any police work. Get er done and lets get on with life!

And yet you believe it is responsible breeding to purchase puppies from litters made of up of senior dogs bred to junior dogs. How is that trying to improve the breed.....?

http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...9&postcount=47

/Paul