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Clear to Carrier ?

5K views 32 replies 16 participants last post by  Katie Minor 
#1 ·
When breeding a EIC clear to a EIC carrier what ratio of the pups will be clear and or carrier ?
 
#2 · (Edited)
EDITED: Bad guess on my part.
 
#8 ·
I'll take the carrier, just not a whole litter.;)

Tim
 
#9 ·
The same logic also applies to a carrier to carrier mating. You will on average get 25% clear, 50% carrier, and 25% affected; but I've seen litters go as high as 50% affected from said matings.

The stats are a puppy's odds of getting a particular genotype, and each puppy is a separate event. Same as a coin toss being a separate event, and not influenced by the result that came before it.
 
#14 ·
In theory both your 50/50 (bitches/males) and your carrier to noncarrier does all work IF/When enough puppies are produced.
Am I saying that correct ??? ANY Vets. want to help me out here.
NOT in any one particular breeding does it happen.
John,
If bred correctly you can breed away from EIC. Folks did it with CNM.
Golden people are doing it with prcd-PRA.
Just can't wipe out entire bloodlines.
Where would the breed be if everyone thought that??
Just be smart and upfront with folks.
Sue
 
#16 ·
I like to look at it as each puppy has a 50/50 chance of being a carrier. Even if there are 12 puppies in the litter, each single puppy has no bearing on whether any of the others will be carriers.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by john fallon
Seems to me the breeding should not take place.

john


I'll also ask the same question. Why not? Are the terms carrier and affected being used interchangeably? They have two distinct and separate meanings.

Linas
 
#18 ·
Chris has the right answer.

In terms of any one pup, a clear to carrier breeding will produce a 50-50 chance that the dog is a carrier (or 50-50 it is clear). The Mendelian Square applies to a single outcome, not a whole population. However, given random occurrence, a large population of puppies with clear to carrier parents should be about 50-50.

Eric
 
#21 ·
I realize the Punnett square is just mathmatical probability.

Obviously, there will be exceptions.
But, we do know that a clear-x-clear breeding will only produce clear pups.

Have there been any clear pups produced from a dog that has tested affected?

How about a carrier in the litter from an affected-x-affected breeding?
 
#22 ·
My take on EIC is that it is looked at by breeders more than anything. EIC carriers are perfectly healthy dogs, just carry the gene. Your majority of your serious field trial/hunt test people want the best dog out of a litter regardless of clear/carrier status. Yea if you could be lucky enough to have a once in a life time stud and he is a carrier then it could pose a problem. What are the odds of having that dog. I would like to have that problem. I am not in it for breeding so carrier status doesn't concern me. Seems it is the folks that breed are the most concerned. Just my take.
 
#23 ·
I see that the percentages shown here attempt to advance the theory that only affected/carrier dogs on one or both sides can produce affecteds, and/or that a clear by carrier breeding has no chance of producing carriers.

Is this what is being said ? Is this what the study has shown to date ?

john
.
 
#25 ·
As long as one parent is clear, there is NO chance that an affected (having two mutated copies of the EIC gene) will be produced....barring the one in 4 billion chance that this mutation occurs again randomly!

A clear to carrier mating will almost always produce a combination of clear and carrier pups, but it could go all one or the other.
 
#31 ·
copterdoc wrote:
We need to do something about breeders sticking their heads in the sand, or hiding the results, if they are something other than clear.
By cooperating in publishing results, each breeder has "freedom of choice".

Some breeders might decide to breed only DNA-clear dogs. Okay. Other breeders may choose to breed carriers who have merit in other aspects. Group # could eliminate the offensive gene more quickly, but can also benefit from the clear offspring produced by Group #2, lessening the impact on the overall gene pool. Group #2 can more gradually lessen the occurrence of the unwanted gene.

There is room for both groups to benefit from open sharing of results. Neither group would produce affected dogs, which is surely the short-term goal. Long-term goal to reduce the incidence of the gene to insignificant proportions while assuring that other traits are not lost.

Looks like a win-win situation to me. But it only works if both groups can respect that both groups are acting responsibly, albeit from different approaches, and don't belittle the other's approach.

If one lacks confidence in the mode of inheritance and/or the DNA test, then all bets are off. You wouldn't be sure that a "clear" really was a "clear" anyhow.
 
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