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View Poll Results: government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Agree

    67 89.33%
  • Disagree

    8 10.67%
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Thread: A poll about the economy

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    ROTFLMAO

    Spoken like a true limousine liberal...."I took a class about communism, therefore I must know more than you even though you lived it."
    You probably like affirmative action and quotas for minority mortgages too as long as they don't move into your gated community and your kids don't have to go to school with theirs.
    True...so damned true....

  2. #52
    Senior Member Nate_C's Avatar
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    Preface: I am not a liberal; I am a conservative, not a republican, but a conservative. With that I say, yes the government is part of the solution.

    Fixing the Banks is critical. During the first half of this nations history we for all intents and purposed had no central bank. There were massive fluxes in interest rates, in access to capital and common depressions. Since the creation of the Fed system there has been a stabilization of the banking system. The government has stepped in and helped indirectly finance the acquisition or re-stabilization of over 40 banks the latest being Wachovia and Washington Mutual. This is critical to our economy

    If Citi, Bank of America, and AIG fail there will be a critical mass loss (20%) of the market in the financial market that will raise interest rates through the roof I have seen estimates as much as 3-5 points over prime. This would cause a period of stagflation, which is what we had in the 70ís but much worse. It would be likely that this could last for several years. Other banks cannot just step in because they donít have the capital. See only a small portion of the capital banks lend is from deposits today. Banks use there own capital and Wall Street money (Credit Default swaps, SIR, Notes, Drafts, Fed FundsÖectÖ). And right now that is in very short supply. Banks are not just businesses they are part of the economic infrastructure. If they are not health nothing works because they provide liquidity from businesses and capital for consumers. If the banks as they stand now can be stabilized this recession will last a year. If not yes the market will compensate but it will take 2-3 years.

    Now as far as the Auto industry goes, I agree, we shouldnít bail out Chrysler, and I am not sure about GM. However, I think some of the opinions are not realistic. If we donít bail them out, they will fail. Even if the economy returned to 2006 levels in six months the debt burden is just too much. Unfortunately they are too far gone. No one will buy them either without government intervention. GM hasnít made a profit from their manufacturing in 6 years. Even if you get there cost structure under control and make the marginal cost profitable you still have to service over 30 billion in debt. Who would buy that? (I do think a GM& Chrysler merger would be good though.

    No one will come and take there place either. The barriers of entry are too high. There is no way to incrementally start a car company. To full start it would cost 20-50 billion to start a car company today with what a 50% chance of succeeding? No one is going to make that investment. Almost every car company today rose out of a market with little to no competition. GM and Ford came about early in the market when the growth rate for cares was 20-30% per year which meant that they didnít have to compete cause there was always more buyers then cars. Same thing for Honda and Toyota in the isolated Japanese market. Some firms rose out of special circumstances like AMC and the other firms that rose after WW2 due to the fact that the government gave them the unused Tank and Jeep factories. Today a firm would have to compete with what 20 other manufactures. The reality is that the US would lose all but Ford if we donít help. If we help GM get though this they might come out a strong profitable company. I am not a strong advocate of this but it is a reasonable course of action.

    Then there is regulation. One of the reasons that this occurred is that there wasnít enough regulation. Look at the history of this nation. As regulation has increased the mean GDP growth rate has increased and the standard deviation as decreased. It works. Completely free markets are not effective or stable. Now government ownership is another issues and a very bad idea. Governments are very bad at running businesses because they donít have the right goal, profit maximization. O and the stimulus package is a misplaced drop in the bucket.

  3. #53
    Senior Member shootncast's Avatar
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    It concerns me quite a bit. I dont think Presisent Obama is going to be able to fix the nightmare left to us by the last administration, I believe we are only feeling the beginning of what they started but you have to have faith.

  4. #54
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootncast View Post
    It concerns me quite a bit. I dont think Presisent Obama is going to be able to fix the nightmare left to us by the last administration, I believe we are only feeling the beginning of what they started but you have to have faith.
    Is the entire problem President George W. Bush's fault?

    Is the proposed fix Preident George W. Bush's fault?

    If the proposed fix won't help should is still be done?

    If the proposed fix is done and doesn't work, who's fault will it actually be if we are in worse shape?

    When you say nightmare what exactly are you refering to?

    Is congress at fault for any of the nightmare?

    Help me understand your viewpoint.

    Thanks
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  5. #55
    Senior Member shootncast's Avatar
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    Listen, I know you guys get all bristly when you hear someone attack ole Georgey but let me assure you, If he was a democrat I would still be blaming him (well, not him exactly because you know as well as I do the man didnt have a clue). Republican, Democrat, Right, Left, Up, Down, In, Out, Hot, Cold, Chocolate, Yellow..Doesnt matter.

  6. #56
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootncast View Post
    Listen, I know you guys get all bristly when you hear someone attack ole Georgey but let me assure you, If he was a democrat I would still be blaming him (well, not him exactly because you know as well as I do the man didnt have a clue). Republican, Democrat, Right, Left, Up, Down, In, Out, Hot, Cold, Chocolate, Yellow..Doesnt matter.

    I am not bristly at all. If you want to blame President George W. Bush for every ailment that modern man is subject to, itís OK with me. I thought I asked some reasonable questions. You could just say yes to the ones that you think are his fault and no to the others. It appears now that you didnít want to discuss the issue at all just use this as a way to place some blame and alleviate obama of any responsibility for anything. Thatís OK, in your view President George W. Bush is responsible for the market going down, all the debt of the nation, days that are too hot, days that are too cold, rain, snow, bad moods, ugly people (is it OK to call people ugly?), and every other malady to befall man since the beginning of time.

    Thanks for playingÖ

    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    From the results of the poll, looks like Obomo and his Congress Revival Act Program (CRAP), only get a 1.46 percentage approval on RTF!

    Yes, we can change the course of history!
    ďThe end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.Ē ĖThomas Jefferson

  8. #58
    Senior Member shootncast's Avatar
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    Well I can assure you this SubRoc..When Obama screws up, I will be first in line to call him on it.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootncast View Post
    Well I can assure you this SubRoc..When Obama screws up, I will be first in line to call him on it.

    Why are you so quiet - He's done nothing since attaining the office but as you say "Screw Up". His whole lefty agenda is one big "Screw Up".
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  10. #60
    Senior Member shootncast's Avatar
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    Lefty Agenda?...Does your little mind get lonely in your big head?

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