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Thread: Choc X Choc Breeding = Yellow?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dogtrainer4God's Avatar
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    Default Choc X Choc Breeding = Yellow?

    Yes siree, check out the bitch's side of the pedigree. Then if you don't believe that, check out the top side of it - Choc X choc = Black http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=5526

    A genetic phenomenon regards,

    Abby
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    I think there is a mistake on that one. Choc X choc can produce yellow (with no black pigment) if both of the parents carry yellow. However, choc X choc cannot produce black!

    Sally
    Northfield Labs

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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Either there is a typo and the sire is actually a Choc, or somebody has some splainin' to do!

  4. #4
    Kristie Wilder
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    Stuff can happen no matter what it says on paper. I'm going to guess it could also be a typo, unless you know for sure...

    I'm confused by your chocxchoc=yellow? and then chocxchoc=blk? I'm not sure which is your real question. choc to choc can make yellow, but they will be dudleys.

    -K

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    Senior Member Dogtrainer4God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristie Wilder View Post
    I'm confused by your chocxchoc=yellow? and then chocxchoc=blk? I'm not sure which is your real question. choc to choc can make yellow, but they will be dudleys.

    -K
    That is exactly what it is. The bitch's side(Bottom side) has the Choc X Choc = Yellow, then the stud's side(top side) has Choc X Choc = Black
    Just sorta throwing it out there
    HRCH UH Wolf Creek's Ebonstar Coach "Coach" MH
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    “Any woman who does not thoroughly enjoy tramping across the country on a clear, frosty morning with a good gun and a pair of dogs does not know how to enjoy life.” ~ Annie Oakley

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  6. #6
    Kristie Wilder
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    ahhhh, got it.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Rather than throwing this up to speculation, wouldn't it be better to perhaps contact the owner or that website admin and ask him/her if there was a typo???
    Vicky
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    Member Reziac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtrainer4God View Post
    Yes siree, check out the bitch's side of the pedigree. Then if you don't believe that, check out the top side of it - Choc X choc = Black http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=5526
    Aside from the fact that it's probably a brain cramp on the part of the typist, and that one should ask before leaping to conclusions...

    There have been a few cases of blacks from two chocolates, and of blacks from two yellows, where there was no mismating involved.

    CxC=B -- I strongly suspect, from the one pedigree I know produced this, that it was really a "charcoal" pup from the "silver" gene, which could readily be in that pedigree.... I also suspect that the sire was a liver-red [what we'd normally register as yellow], not a true chocolate, as both his parents were yellow. (And no, "silver" is not from a Weim; it's from a Norwegian Elkhound cross that was done during WW2, and is documented in Mary Roslin-Williams' first book -- apparently she witnessed the mating.) I know of one very conscientious breeder (mainly a show kennel) who has produced charcoal from silver ex chlt, which tends to support my hypothesis. -- ANY pedigree that goes back to Poppleton breeding can carry "silver" and/or chocolate, tho in practice it's very rare that either came down to modern lines, since they selected almost entirely for yellows. (Conversely, the brindle in that line is masked by yellow, so has come down to many modern lines.)

    YxY=B can happen if one of the yellows has the gene for white spotting. The black pups have white markings like a Border Collie, but the white markings are masked on the yellows. You can get this down from Spring Farms Smokey for sure, and probably elsewhere. It probably got introduced by a Pointer crossbreeding during the 1940s.

    Side note: I've indexed every Lab from the AKC stud books from 1878 thru 1948, including all offspring and littermates. Turns out a lot of the pedigrees in common circulation are wrong (including that for Cork of Oakwood Lane), and a lot of where people think various colours came from is completely off-base.

  9. #9
    Senior Member firehouselabs's Avatar
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    OK, since you opened that can of worms, WHAT IS the pedigree of Cork of Oakwood Lane? Inquiring minds want to know!
    Raina Anderson WWW.FIREHOUSELABS.COM

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    http://home.earthlink.net/~rividh/ke...igree/cork.htm

    This is the "corrected pedigree" for '55 NFC-AFTC-CFTC Cork of Oakwood Lane.
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