Any Raw Feeders Out There?

[PridezionLabs]

Hi Awesmlab, your right, if you are feeding ground like we are, then you have to have those RMB's as well as regular chewing bones. The teeth on my gang will blind ya! lol lol....seriously though I got 9 - 10 year olds with really nice white teeth.

[windycanyon]

[quote=Jo Ann Reynolds;412621]

Pat and her late husband, Bob, are AKC judges who seriously got into conformation evaluations of litters (both show and performance) several years ago. Their video the "Puppy Puzzle" is great, imo. I do agree that not every breed is considered equal, but I can tell you it was because of that video that I was able to recognize nutritional issues in my one litter I had tried to feed Canidae. I saw knuckling over at 5.5 wks... As soon as I scaled down to a lower Ca/P food, it was gone. I went back to Euk LBP after that and have had no issues, just very uniform growth.

Anne,

I have a very interesting peer reviewed article from an academic vet journal which reviews the scientific literature on OCD. The authors conclude that diet does not cause OCD it is genetic. Period. The jury is still out on whether diet influences it but if it does it is probably through the diet of the mother since OCD lesions probably begin to develop in utero and certainly before they leave for their new homes. Here is the citation:
Ytrehus, B., C.S. Carlson, and S. Ekman. Etology and Pathogenesis of Osteochondrosis. Veterinary Pathology, 44:429-448 (2007)

I have a friend who recently had her lab litter evaluated by Pat Hastings. This woman feeds raw and knowing Pat's feelings about raw did not tell her they were raw fed. Pat told her that she had never seen such good looking well formed puppies. Since then I have not put much stock in what Pat Hastings has to say.

Obviously your friend has it figured out what the right blend of this and that is... I'm not saying that is impossible, but difficult for a newbie w/o great guidance. Not something I'd take a chance on as a breeder at this point, personally-- if the diet is not analyzed w/in tolerances, I'd not sell the pup to the person. No guarantee (or lack of) in the world would make me feel better about a sale that I don't have confidence in. I am here to try to produce a sound long lived dog, and make people happy, not mad or defensive.

Btw, I never said raw or Ca caused OCD (at least I hope I didn't!), though a WSU ortho supposedly told a friend of mine it WAS nutritional. I think nutrition is a modifier. It certainly can make it worse especially if you get growth out of sync. It may be the difference between an assymptomatic dog vs one needing surgery. Big difference to my pocketbook.. and pride.

As for your friend's litter, let me get this straight, was it a nice litter or was it not? What part don't you respect Pat for--- that she said your friend's litter was nice? I'd respect her MORE for recognizing a nice litter despite her dietary data that would tell her otherwise. She does evaluate a heck of a lot of litters and worked w/ the folks at OR vet school to formulate a lot of the info she presents. Anne

[windycanyon]

I agree windycanyon, that raw diets need to make sure that the cal/phos ratio is balanced. Which is why I feed them green tripe
"Green tripe is one of the best, most nutritionally complete foods you can give your dogs. Benefits include a high acid content keep teeth cleaner, as well as providing extra fat for a healthy coat and quick energy, and amino acids to aid in muscular development. Green tripe is also very rich in digestive enzymes, gastric acids, and amino acids, these help your pet to break down and fully utilize their meals. Due to its rubbery nature it also provides some exercise to the jaw. Green tripe has a calcium/phosphate ratio of about 1:1, protein ranges from 16-18% and also contains omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids...."

Sounds pretty "icky" to me (esp if the dog upchucks it on the carpet!), but I'm glad you've got something that is balanced and nutritionally correct to work with.

That said, I'll stick to turning my head the other way when my dogs do mouse and gopher "shooters" out in the field. The puppy has only managed to get the back legs of one gopher from her mom, and I rescued that from her midway down the hatch.... Anne

[WaterDogRem]

After numerous issues and a tragic early ending of my last dog, I'm interesting in learning about a raw diet for my pup.

Any raw food diet books you raw feeders suggest? Thanks!

[Jo Ann Reynolds]

After numerous issues and a tragic early ending of my last dog, I'm interesting in learning about a raw diet for my pup.

Any raw food diet books you raw feeders suggest? Thanks!

Waterdog, see my earlier post, #52 for some reading references.

[SeniorCoot]

There's another post I answered about raw food- when I raced sled dogs we fed them around 6,000 cal/ day when running in season- am water and ground chix to keep hydrated-then after running if just training they got scoop of dry feed with water and more chix- then 6-8oz of horse liver or lamb or turkey skins-then later 1/2 fish or chunk of meat- made sausages out of chix/ turkey/ horse etc and fed those on each run--man they could/ would eat anything and as much as you gave them- in summer we fed dry with fish mostly or cooked stuff we had from winter.Including any local horses that died.
Never read any books on feeding raw- just did what my mentor-Joe Runyan-Iditarod-Alpirod- Yukon Quest-etc winner taught me- it worked.