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Thread: Credit where due

  1. #1
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Default Credit where due

    The ONLY thing BHO has done that I agree with so far. Over turning the ban on funding embryonic stem cell research.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/...ama_stem_cells
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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    Senior Member Tatyana's Avatar
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    Same here.

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    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    The ONLY thing BHO has done that I agree with so far. Over turning the ban on funding embryonic stem cell research.
    Just curios as to Why (not trying to pick a fight...just seeking your input since you are "in the field")? (see below)

    Israeli researchers are the first in the world to have documented that the injection of stem cells from aborted human fetuses can trigger tumors. (from this article) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellitepagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1233304821674


    And...



    by Steven Ertelt
    LifeNews.com Editor


    Rochester, NY (LifeNews.com) -- Scientists working with embryonic stem cell research on animals reconfirmed what pro-life advocates have been saying for years about it. Researcher Steven Goldman and colleagues at the University of Rochester Medical Center said injecting embryonic stem cells into the brains of patients with Parkinson's disease would cause tumors.
    Goldman's research team has been injecting the controversial cells into rats that have the disease and the cells turned into tumors afterwards.
    The scientists explained their findings in an article in the latest issue of Nature Medicine.
    They said the embryonic stem cell injections helped some of the rats but some of the cells started growing in a manner that would eventually lead to a tumor.
    "The behavioral data validate the utility of the approach. But it also raises a cautionary flag and says we are not ready for prime time yet," Goldman told the Washington Post.
    He conceded that considerably more research would need to be done to determine whether the tumor problems could ever be overcome.
    Parkinson's is a disease where dopamine-releasing cells in the brain die out, which leads to muscle dysfunction and can eventually cause paralysis. The goal of stem cell research in Parkinson's is to replace the dead cells with stem cells that form into new dopamine cells.
    Goldman's team used human embryonic stem cells obtained by killing days-old unborn children that were grown in a special chemical used to coax them into becoming brain cells.
    The team killed the rats before they could determine that the tumors that appeared to be growing actually finished appearing and they said that any embryonic stem cell treatments on humans, which has never been tried, would have to be closely monitored.
    Some autopsies on the rats found tumors and that the embryonic stem cells began to grow uncontrollably rather than becoming the dopamine cells as intended.
    Another team led by Ole Isacson, a Harvard Medical School professor of neuroscience and neurology, published similar results earlier this month in the online journal Stem Cells and found that the embryonic stem cells also produced tumors.
    Adult stem cells have not had the same problems and have been used successfully to treat dozens of diseases and conditions. But scientists have said they don't think embryonic stem cell research will lead to a cure for Parkinson's.
    University of Melbourne Emeritus Professor of Medicine Thomas Martin told Australian lawmakers recently that he did not think that embryonic stem cell research would even lead to cures for major diseases such as diabetes or Parkinson's.

    Martin, an internationally recognized Fellow of the Royal Society, said the embryonic stem cells produced from human cloning would have the same problems.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    why does the federal government have to pay for this research. let the market decide whether it is of value. obviously the is research going on just not being paid for by the taxpayers!
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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Farmer View Post
    Just curios as to Why (not trying to pick a fight...just seeking your input since you are "in the field")? (see below)

    Israeli researchers are the first in the world to have documented that the injection of stem cells from aborted human fetuses can trigger tumors. (from this article) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellitepagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1233304821674


    And...



    by Steven Ertelt
    LifeNews.com Editor


    Rochester, NY (LifeNews.com) -- Scientists working with embryonic stem cell research on animals reconfirmed what pro-life advocates have been saying for years about it. Researcher Steven Goldman and colleagues at the University of Rochester Medical Center said injecting embryonic stem cells into the brains of patients with Parkinson's disease would cause tumors.
    Goldman's research team has been injecting the controversial cells into rats that have the disease and the cells turned into tumors afterwards.
    The scientists explained their findings in an article in the latest issue of Nature Medicine.
    They said the embryonic stem cell injections helped some of the rats but some of the cells started growing in a manner that would eventually lead to a tumor.
    "The behavioral data validate the utility of the approach. But it also raises a cautionary flag and says we are not ready for prime time yet," Goldman told the Washington Post.
    He conceded that considerably more research would need to be done to determine whether the tumor problems could ever be overcome.
    Parkinson's is a disease where dopamine-releasing cells in the brain die out, which leads to muscle dysfunction and can eventually cause paralysis. The goal of stem cell research in Parkinson's is to replace the dead cells with stem cells that form into new dopamine cells.
    Goldman's team used human embryonic stem cells obtained by killing days-old unborn children that were grown in a special chemical used to coax them into becoming brain cells.
    The team killed the rats before they could determine that the tumors that appeared to be growing actually finished appearing and they said that any embryonic stem cell treatments on humans, which has never been tried, would have to be closely monitored.
    Some autopsies on the rats found tumors and that the embryonic stem cells began to grow uncontrollably rather than becoming the dopamine cells as intended.
    Another team led by Ole Isacson, a Harvard Medical School professor of neuroscience and neurology, published similar results earlier this month in the online journal Stem Cells and found that the embryonic stem cells also produced tumors.
    Adult stem cells have not had the same problems and have been used successfully to treat dozens of diseases and conditions. But scientists have said they don't think embryonic stem cell research will lead to a cure for Parkinson's.
    University of Melbourne Emeritus Professor of Medicine Thomas Martin told Australian lawmakers recently that he did not think that embryonic stem cell research would even lead to cures for major diseases such as diabetes or Parkinson's.

    Martin, an internationally recognized Fellow of the Royal Society, said the embryonic stem cells produced from human cloning would have the same problems.

    Keith. Way too much to go into here but aborted fetuses and 5 day old embryos are not the same thing. Direct injection of stem cells is only one of the may approaches, and perhaps the silliest for lack of a better term, being researched. While I am unfamiliar with the Rochester group I am familiar with the Harvard group and again this is only one aspect of stem cell research and far from all that can and will be done with them.
    One thing to keep in mind, while in a perfect world maybe all of the left over embryos would be donated to families that cannot have their own children, many people do not wish to donate their “children” and the excess embryos are then washed down the drain. I know, from knowing you and from the way you phrase the question, that you are very much pro life and I understand that prospective but many people, myself included, feel that this is a good use for these excess embryos.
    FWIW- our facility does not destroy frozen embryos. We only allow our patients to either use them themselves, donate them to others, donate them to our lab to use in research or training, or donate them to stem cell research. We feel that this gives the embryos the utmost respect and assures that none go to waste if you will. I guess a lot depends on your perspective on where life begins, so feel conception other at birth. I fall somewhere in between, when there is a heart beat you have a formed “fetus” and for me that is the beginning. Prior to that it is just cells no different from sperm, blood, skin, eggs or what have you. Cells die all the time and while you could call any of them alive to me it is not life itself until there is a heart. Maybe I am jaded but I just don’t see life in my culture dishes any more than I did when I was growing plates of bacteria.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckheads View Post
    why does the federal government have to pay for this research. let the market decide whether it is of value. obviously the is research going on just not being paid for by the taxpayers!

    Spoken like someone who does not have a clue. NIH is the largest funder of ALL medical research. Allowing the market to decide is fine, but I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that you are one who bitches about the cost of prescription medications, yet that is one of the areas of research that is in fact driven by private funding. If the private sector funds it, you can bet the cost is going to be very high to the end consumer. What I am saying is that if they figure out how to grow arms and legs using stem cells and it is through private money well,....it will cost you an arm and a leg to get that arm and leg
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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    the thing i dont understand is that there are other cells in adults that can easily be taken from skin that don't require a baby being killed. Why not use those instead of having a seemingly needless debate.

  8. #8
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    the thing i dont understand is that there are other cells in adults that can easily be taken from skin that don't require a baby being killed. Why not use those instead of having a seemingly needless debate.

    Excuse me what babies are being killed??? These are 5 day old embryos that have never seen the inside of a woman. 64 or so cells does not a baby make
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #9
    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Spoken like someone who does not have a clue. NIH is the largest funder of ALL medical research. Allowing the market to decide is fine, but I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that you are one who bitches about the cost of prescription medications, yet that is one of the areas of research that is in fact driven by private funding. If the private sector funds it, you can bet the cost is going to be very high to the end consumer. What I am saying is that if they figure out how to grow arms and legs using stem cells and it is through private money well,....it will cost you an arm and a leg to get that arm and leg
    if you make that bet you would lose your money. why don't you just support your views instead of attacking someone who is questioning you? you don't know me from adam and you are going act like you know something about me. there is a lot of federal money going to research that is bogus. you complain about all of the other money he is spending but if it supports your livelyhood then you are all for it. you sound like the hypocrites you are constantly bashing on this forum. so if the government was doing all of the research for the trails for new drugs we would have what, free prescriptions? are you for socializing all of the medical field or just the one you work in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    The ONLY thing BHO has done that I agree with so far. Over turning the ban on funding embryonic stem cell research.
    I personally consider that one legacy of the past administration that was not commendable.

    We should leave science to the scientists & politics to the people & we would all be the better for same.

    As for Corey's view being hypocritical, I don't agree, he has done an excellent job of presenting his views on this subject whenever posted. & has the background to support his presentations. Which is not something that many who disagree with him can lay claim to.

    Of course, that may be why the Right to Lifer's lose every time they go to court. & why the extremists in that movement lose every time they hit the ballot box. When a radical abortion law gets overturned at the ballot box in a state like SD, they need to recognize they overstepped.
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