whats the difference

[Pete]

I often read people hailing support for lets say Lardy program,,or a Farmer program or A Grahm program or whatever.
Can anybody name me a major difference in one pro's program over another.
Don't they all do basically the same thing with a dog. Like one might use 8 bumpers in a wagon wheel and the other sixteen
Or one might teach sit first the other "here" Or 1 might do something a little different but not enough to say its a program change.

Just wondering I don't think I have ever heard of a major componant that would constitute a program change in my mind.
No 2 people will ever be able to train dogs alike,,,so I am wondering here

Pete

[Brent Keever]

What made the difference for me was the way I could understand what I read and watched on a dvd. They may all be the same to some extent but I was able to understand one better than the others as a newbie.

[Pete]

What made the difference for me was the way I could understand what I read and watched on a dvd. They may all be the same to some extent but I was able to understand one better than the others as a newbie. Today 03:49 AM

Brent
I think that might be the most important part. I have never studied a program. I would study what someone was doing but it certainly could not be caled a program. Most FF the same or weather a table or toe hitch or ear pinch. I wouldn't call a different method a different program unless that method has visable discernable effects. But I have watched some video's and didn't see one major difference or heard of 1 major philosophy difference. But maby thats because I didn't study them.

I was hoping someone had an answere. or if its just vanacular differences.

Or is an approach thought of as the same as a program


Pete

[RetrieversONLINE]

I often read people hailing support for lets say Lardy program,,or a Farmer program or A Grahm program or whatever.
Can anybody name me a major difference in one pro's program over another.
Don't they all do basically the same thing with a dog. Like one might use 8 bumpers in a wagon wheel and the other sixteen
Or one might teach sit first the other "here" Or 1 might do something a little different but not enough to say its a program change.

Just wondering I don't think I have ever heard of a major componant that would constitute a program change in my mind.
No 2 people will ever be able to train dogs alike,,,so I am wondering here

Pete

Pete,

This may be the biggest can of worms opened up on RTF for awhile but there are huge differences among various "name" programs around the country. All the steps "look" similar in terms of steps and terminology. NOT TRUE!! Until you truly study each, you will not see differences in the approach to dealing with the dogs, how each defines fairness, how each teaches versus tests and how each respects the dogs. I will not enter into a huge debate on what these differences are or what they mean to the dog but trust me there are huge differences.

How you design set-ups
How you correct
How you care for dogs
How you praise
How you deal with problems

Just the beginning!!!!! and nothing to do with 8 versus 16 bumpers!!

[HuntinDawg]

Well I guess I'll throw my paltry two cents in. It does seem that most of the information being disseminated today are "Carr based" and that is a good thing IMO.

When I was training my current dog I used both the Lardy system and Smartworks. One of the things that sets these two programs apart (I'm talking about the written materials, not just DVD's) are the use of flow charts and the fact that the dog is "built" in small, logical, incremental steps with each step building on the last. Following the flow charts prevents skipping around, glossing over things, etc. There were some small differences in the Lardy and Smartworks flow charts, but not much. Other than that, it is primarily a matter of differences in communicating the information. When I was on a particular step or drill I would read what both Lardy and Graham had to say about it. Sometimes the way one of them wrote the information made it click for me a little better than the other guy. Sometimes it was the other way around. Sometimes there were some small differences and I had to decide which one to follow.

For Lardy and Graham the DVD's are not the systems IMO, the Lardy article compilations and the Smartworks BOOKS are the systems and the DVD's are just complimentary IMO. Since it was my first time collar conditioning a dog I found the Lardy collar conditioning DVD to be invaluable in helping me really understand how to go about it. Same thing with Graham's Swim By DVD. I don't know how I would have had the resolve to try either of those steps on my own without both the written word and the DVD's.

I like the Fowl Dawgs DVD's, and I will utilize them the next time around (they came out a little too late for my current dog), but they do not represent a COMPLETE system like Lardy's articles and the Smartworks books IMO. There are some good nuggets in there though.

BTW, both Lardy and Graham place a huge emphasis on being fair to the dog IMO. That is something I appreciate and respect.

[honker88]

Hey, stupid question...what is IMO?

[HuntinDawg]

Hey, stupid question...what is IMO?

"In my opinion"...usually not even necessary to say since most of these posts are just someone's opinion, but sometimes I use it just so people will know that I don't think I'm speaking the absolute 100% gospel and that anyone who disagrees is just plain wrong. When I feel that way about a subject (that I'm right and anyone who disagrees is just plain wrong) it is usually pretty obvious by the way I express myself on the subject.

[Jake Lunsford]

In My Opinion

[Pete]

Thanks Dennis and Hunting dog


Is it dicernable from watching tapes or do you have to be there with the trainer day in and day out to be able to see it.
As far as someone new is concerned. Or should I phrase it. Someone who has never trained with the trainer nor viewed the video's,, Would they see a program difference.
Didn't realize I had a can opener on me

Thanks
Pete

[FetchExpress]

My 2 cents.....Hi Pete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Retrievers Online...that was an excellent post that I agree with 100 percent. I would add a couple of more points to the list...

1. How you read a dog...I have noticed that some are far better with certain types of dogs.
2. Defining what is effort and then built on
3. When you correct (different timing for differnt dogs and breeds)

I think there are MANY programs out there and EACH bring something to the table...then it is up to the handler/trainer to begin to figure out what works best for their dog. If they dont get the desired results try something differnt. Sometimes us trainers dont ask the question to the dog in a way that the dog understand. IMHO I believe that the handlers/ owners job is to keep phrasing the question differently until the dog gets it. In a sense we proof their response to the question.

Just my 2 cents

KC