So, you are about to handle your retriever. You have blown your whistle and you dog has stopped, turned and sat. Your dog is looking at you and waiting for your cast. Because if the timing of your whistle and the mechanics of the dogs turn and sit the proper cast is a straight left back. The dog is 200 + yards away and you are going to use a verbal back combined with your left arm straight up touching your ear. Your hands are in the “at prayer” pose, transmitter between your palms at shirt pocket level. When do you say “Back!”?
well, I voted before reading the whole post....I thought the vote was talking about sending from your side (LOL LOL LOL) too early here and working on taxes....That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
I say back before putting my arm up on remote cast, IF I am going to use voice.
I say back after I have given the cast assuming he has turned the right way. If one gives a verbal back and he doesn't see the cast it could drive him in the wrong direction.
Good thread
I thought you wanted the word "BACK" to arrive at the same time as the dog saw the arm go up, if you include the arm at all. Is this thought correct?
So at 200 yards I would say "BACK" then do my arm.
For point of discussion we are assuming that you in your mind have already decided to give a verbal back. And the dog has done nothing wrong, might even be the first whistle from the time it left the line to its 200-yard location. This is just focusing on when you say the word. I ask because, like the answers above indicate folks say the word at different times. And some folks do not know when they say the word.
I don't use verbals casts that much I mainly use them when the dogs momentum starts to break down or I get a cast refusal. I put my arm up slow and say back as it is going up.
Scott
aha....LOL LOL LOL....
I don't remember choosing two of them, but maybe I did....heck, it's only 6:30 am here...my fingers aren't working right yet....
I was taught light travels faster than sound. So if there is to be a verbal, at that distance, I use the voice first, immediately followed by the hand. The first time I did it this way with a good teacher, I was amazed at how much better the response was.
Make it coincide with your normal cast.
Adjusting possibly for sound vs. distance.
If you normally do voice then hand, I would think you would keep it that way, maybe give the voice command a second earlier. (voice slightly earlier in any of the scenarios)
In other words, sight (light) is faster then sound, so maybe an adjustment for distance.
But I would have honestly never thought of that.
It depends, as Angie said not enough info leading up to the cast....
Is the dog near an old fall, poision bird, is this a blind or handling on a mark, is the dog working with the handler, can the dog see the handler, can the handler see the dog, which way is the wind blowing, on a point, water blind or land blind, young dog, older dog...
Simple answer to your question - yes it matters when and if you say back!
what happens if you say back after raising your arm..let's say, delay of 1-2 seconds...would a judge view that as a seperate cast?
for example you have a strong wind in your face, you know your voice is not going to carry quickly. BUT you want to 'reaffirm' in the dog's mind what you are asking him to do after he has turned away...so you delay the voice command after the cast briefly, knowing that the dog could be several feet away from where he was sitting when he actually hears the command.
Not allowing for wind, temperature, or air density (since, as we all know, gasses can vary around different people), sound travels at 1125 ft/sec. At 200 yds (600ft) your "back" should arrive .533 seconds after it leaves your lips. As noted, your body movements are at the speed of light and virtually instantaneous.
So, unless you have a lightening quick arm, I'd argue that you'd better have that arm in gear as you say "back" if you want them to arrive at the same time.
If the dog is so far out he will not hear the sound as he sees the movement, it needs to be before you give the hand/arm cast.
If the dog is nearer so that both sound and movement coincide, then movement before voice.
If you need less directional change, but also momentum builder, it would be arm then voice at a distance so that the directional change occurs, then the back adds to momentum (delayed back).
First, at 200+ yards, and taking into consideration ambient noises (like wind, etc.), I'm not sure my Sadie could hear my voice anyway. However, unlike closer in, I'd still give the verbal but just as my arm started up to compensate for the distance and speed of sound vs. speed of light.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF
1.4M posts
32.1K members
Since 2003
A forum community dedicated to retriever owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, training, health, behavior, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!