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Thread: A counter to the "torture debate"

  1. #1
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    Default A counter to the "torture debate"

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018665408933455.html

    The Memos Prove We Didn't Torture
    The Red Cross was completely wrong about 'walling.'

    By DAVID B. RIVKIN JR. and LEE A. CASEY
    The four memos on CIA interrogation released by the White House last week reveal a cautious and conservative Justice Department advising a CIA that cared deeply about staying within the law. Far from "green lighting" torture -- or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees -- the memos detail the actual techniques used and the many measures taken to ensure that interrogations did not cause severe pain or degradation.

    Interrogations were to be "continuously monitored" and "the interrogation team will stop the use of particular techniques or the interrogation altogether if the detainee's medical or psychological conditions indicates that the detainee might suffer significant physical or mental harm."
    -more-

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    Senior Member Goose's Avatar
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    Dear Leader, Janet and the rest of his Cabinet treat captured terrorists (who are determined to kill as many Americans as they can) with more respect than American veterans returning from the Middle East. Heck, Janet considers the returning American soldier as a right-wing extremist who must be monitored. How about ankle bracelets, Janet.

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    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    I sure would like to see an end to the media fascination with torture and making the U.S. look bad. Yes, I believe we should uphold a higher standard than our enemies but I don't think a few enlisted soldier mistakes and classified internal memos should be plastered all over the front pages of the papers and the net. Terrorists and those countries that hate us will always find fodder to feed their fury but why should we spoon feed it to them? If the media seeks sensationalism to sell product why not outline how U.S. captives are treated abroad?

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    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    I sure would like to see an end to the media fascination with torture and making the U.S. look bad.
    Wouldn't we all! But that's not their way. All they give a damn about is "Getting Even". All this folderol is nothing more than distraction...to get the focus off the current administration's blunders and gaffes at every turn.

    Think of the glee there would be in the Letterman crowd if there was anyone except a black President making these incredulous faux pas? Like all the MSP he's invested in this administration. You'd never hear any of these late night Presidential slammers aiming arrows at Obama...too risky. This nation is splitting wider apart daily on racial divides. This will become the major failure of this administration.

    As the sycophantic media continue to fawn at every movement BHO makes, and continues to back every administration genuflect to our enemies, giving them loads of confidence about how soft we've become, the rest of us are given little choice but to get busy running this yahoo and his minions out on a rail. Just think how devisive this will all become.

    Eventually even the so-called 'little guy' will come to realize the push by this administration and their willing accomplices in the MSP, to promote hatred against the haves by taking from them and redistributing it to the have-nots will sink in as causing their demise as well. After the producers have given up when they realize there is no reward to their efforts, and all they have employed become totally destitute, the revolution will begin.

    I can only hope there are enough remaining true Americans that understand how their freedoms have eroded into socialism, so they know what to return to. Not sure when this will happen. Probably take a generation before the sheeple wise up; certainly beyond the ages of the 60's flower children.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

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    What I find interesting is the press' fascination with "water-boarding" although we now learn it has only been used on three individuals.

    Also, the techiques are commonly used in the SERE program with our own military members....and members of Congress know this.

    Also, they aren't after the actual folks who did this but the lawyers who crafted the parameters that were used.

    In effect, it's a witch hunt and no more.

    Eric

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    I usually just read through here and avoid chiming in for a number of reasons. However, this has been a topic of discussion in our home just about every night since being on the news. Something in a previous post struck me, and I am in total agreement with. I to agree as the United States of America we should hold ourselves to a higher standard when dealing with such issues such as what is torture and what is not.

    I think we have held ourselves to a higher standard thus far. We don't cut off peoples heads or kill them and then drag them through the streets. Also I have not heard we have yet to pull anybody's finger nails off with pliers, put bamboo shoot under fingernails, lop off body parts, or zap them with car batteries and jumper cables.

    So I think is is safe to say we continue to hold the bar somewhat higher than the people we are having to deal with.

    I am in the camp of let the professionals do what they need to do to keep us safe.

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    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    Ditto!!!!!!!! i wonder if daniel pearl's family feel that what we are doing is torture?
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    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    This is issue is clear, cut at least to me. The facts are that waterboarding is torture. Torture is against the law. What is so hard to understand about that. If we choose to look the other way in this matter, then please tell me what will be a deterrent from this happening again. But to me the more important matter is that we will have a system that is two tiered. One where the political elites don't have to function under the law and the other where common folk are put in jail for just about anything.
    Look, to get elected it is almost a foregone conclusion that a candidate must be tough on crime. Tough on who? Shouldn't we also be tough on crime when top politicians commit felonies.
    This is not an argument about retribution. as it is about following domestic and international law. Let investigations begin and see where it leads us.

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    Senior Member Joe S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    What I find interesting is the press' fascination with "water-boarding" although we now learn it has only been used on three individuals.

    Also, the techiques are commonly used in the SERE program with our own military members....and members of Congress know this.

    Also, they aren't after the actual folks who did this but the lawyers who crafted the parameters that were used.

    In effect, it's a witch hunt and no more.

    Eric
    "...only been used on three individuals..."

    So what is the acceptable number of people the United States of American can torture before torture becomes wrong in your eyes?

    There is a huge difference between being waterboarded at SERE and being waterboarded in real life. Getting boarded at SERE you know it is a training environment and it will end at some point. There is no thought in the back of your mind "What are they going to do to me next?" You've been cramped up, cooped up, kept up, not allowed to use a bathroom, gone through the homophobe drills, under fed, under hydrated, and just about everything else...and still you know that in the back of your mind SERE is a training environment and it's going to end.

    To suggest that being boarded at SERE and being boarded as the real deal are one in the same highlights a basic lack of understanding of both the training, the preparation for and the effect of being waterboarded.

    Of course you know why they board people at SERE, right Eric? They board them, and do all the other things to them, to expose them to the types of TORTURE they can expect if they are captured by the enemy. And while we are discussing things you know, I'd bet you also know that following WWII the United States of America successfully tried and convicted people of war crimes. One of the crimes: waterboarding...but then you knew that.

    I have no love or pity for KSM or any of the others that seek to do us harm. I just think the USA should be above torture.

    Yoo Was Just A Lawyer Regards,

    Joe S.
    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin

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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
    "...only been used on three individuals..."

    So what is the acceptable number of people the United States of American can torture before torture becomes wrong in your eyes?

    .

    As many as it takes

    I don't care if we take blow torches to their balls. Don't ask, don't tell just get results
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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