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Thread: A counter to the "torture debate"

  1. #11
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    As many as it takes

    I don't care if we take blow torches to their balls. Don't ask, don't tell just get results
    Nice seems very similiar to what I hear on this board about what the savages in the middle east do to our people

  2. #12
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Meet force with force. If I can sleep at night becasue somebody is doing what it takes to keep me safe so be it

    Can't handle the truth regards
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  3. #13
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Meet force with force. If I can sleep at night becasue somebody is doing what it takes to keep me safe so be it

    Can't handle the truth regards
    I guess then you don't fault them for their savagery, after all you approve of using these drastic measures yourself.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
    "...only been used on three individuals..."

    So what is the acceptable number of people the United States of American can torture before torture becomes wrong in your eyes?

    There is a huge difference between being waterboarded at SERE and being waterboarded in real life. Getting boarded at SERE you know it is a training environment and it will end at some point. .....

    To suggest that being boarded at SERE and being boarded as the real deal are one in the same highlights a basic lack of understanding of both the training, the preparation for and the effect of being waterboarded.

    Of course you know why they board people at SERE, right Eric? They board them, and do all the other things to them, to expose them to the types of TORTURE they can expect if they are captured by the enemy. And while we are discussing things you know, I'd bet you also know that following WWII the United States of America successfully tried and convicted people of war crimes. One of the crimes: waterboarding...but then you knew that.
    I just thought the revelations were sort of interesting.

    1. I mentioned the number three not to diminish the practice but rather to diminish the blithering idiots that talk about it as though this were some routine that was done to hundreds of individuals over years and years. In effect, let's put some perspective on this. If we're going to witch hunt, let's confine it to those three cases. BTW, I heard the Speaker Pelosi knew about this and wasn't particularly upset. Maybe she needs to a target of the witch-hunt too.

    2. Of course the outcome of SERE and real-life are different. That's why one is training and one is not. The thousands of troops that were trained with this technique knew there was an end in sight though it may have seemed interminable. The folks in real life didn't know there is an end in sight and that is the cause of their anxiety and ultimately to their revealing whatever they revealed. So...the only real issue is whether or not we should make these folks feel anxious. You bet we should....in spades. Afterall, they are suspected of planning or having the plans to actions that are far more heinous.

    3. During WWII the Japanese used waterboarding. However, they did not have the safeguards that we have used. They were actually killing people. So far as I know, that hasn't been charged.

    Eric

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    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    I just have one question for all of you that are defending waterboarding. Would you find it find it ok for our officials not to prosecute or bring to justice someone who has waterboarded one of our own troops? Even if they instituted the safeguards they say they did would it still be ok?
    If your answer is no, then I find it hard for you to defend anyone in this country who has done the same thing.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post


    Of course you know why they board people at SERE, right Eric? They board them, and do all the other things to them, to expose them to the types of TORTURE they can expect if they are captured by the enemy. And while we are discussing things you know, I'd bet you also know that following WWII the United States of America successfully tried and convicted people of war crimes. One of the crimes: waterboarding...but then you knew that.


    Joe S.
    Your chutzpah is incredulous, Joe. Read up on who all was privy to the CIA's activities back in 2002 and 2003...but you knew that, right Joe?

    MANY in congress KNEW about all these techniques, Joe...but you knew that, right???

    Even the 3rd in line for the POTUS, God forbid, was made aware of all this activity...but you knew that, right Joe???

    And your feeble attempt at bringing "waterboarding" up to the level of the WWII war crimes is so far below your intelligence level, it boggles my mind. Almost analogous to adding to the accusations of a serial killer..."he also jay-walked 15 years ago".

    Your attempt at painting the right as being "the big, bad, immoral nasty bastards that have caused all the problems we face in the world with the Islamic facists", is a real stretch.

    The political garbage your party is spewing about this situation is totally disingenuous...but you know that, right Joe?

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  7. #17
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    I just have one question for all of you that are defending waterboarding. Would you find it find it ok for our officials not to prosecute or bring to justice someone who has waterboarded one of our own troops? Even if they instituted the safeguards they say they did would it still be ok?
    If your answer is no, then I find it hard for you to defend anyone in this country who has done the same thing.
    I think I was mistaken in thinking that you meant one of our own did it to one of our own, but I now believe your question is what if THEY did it to one of ours….. I would not expect any prosecution. I have been told war is hell and I have to take their word for it
    Last edited by badbullgator; 04-23-2009 at 03:41 PM.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  8. #18
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    I just have one question for all of you that are defending waterboarding. Would you find it find it ok for our officials not to prosecute or bring to justice someone who has waterboarded one of our own troops? Even if they instituted the safeguards they say they did would it still be ok?
    If your answer is no, then I find it hard for you to defend anyone in this country who has done the same thing.
    If we fought a war with an enemy that stopped at wateboarding, that had policies that ensured that a doctor and a psychiatrist were on hand if they went as far as to slap one of our soldiers, that could use insects on our soldiers who had insect phobias, but only as long as they informed them that the bugs could not actually harm them, most of our military members and civilian operators who actually take the risk of capture would dance in the streets with relief. But of course they (we) know that we have never fought an enemy like that. We usually end up in wars with enemies that have no moral compunction to treat our people with any glimmer of humanity. We have always taken the moral high road when it comes to treatment of our prisoners of war, with the possible exception of the civil war. So to answer your question, no, I do not expect our officials to prosecute someone who has waterboarded one of our troops. I think that idea is completely ridiculous, but very popular with politicians who spend their lives in comfort and ignorance while making stupid rules to regulate better men than themselves. Men who spend - and sometimes expend - their lives fighting our wars or hunting down criminals in their mission to keep us all safe. And nothing pisses me off more than hearing some pantywaist who has neither the spine nor the clarity of thought to do the job question the morality of the man who does.
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

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    I think we should all be neutered. That way we might get along with liberals.
    We can play patty cake and feel like we are accomplishing something. Then when we are all done we can have group hugs and kiss the feet of our enemies and feel really good about ourselves.

    Then when we hear about the cattapilliars the interogaters let loose in the room we can all scream and hold each other tight for comfort and support. We can then complain in a group setting how evil and cruel that man was that let the cattipillar loose. And then file a law suit against him and his superiors and proclaim on news shows how evil this catapillar man is.
    I'm getting the hang of this liberal mindset,,,don't ya think.

    Pansy arse qu--r bait regaurds

    Pete

  10. #20
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Hookset & Badbullgator I applaud your honesty and respect your opinion, but as you probably already know I strongly disagree with you. For one I don't believe in Waterboard lite............... If you read Article 3 of the Geneva convention and what constitutes torture you would be hard pressed that saying the presence of a doctor is comfort to the prisoner or alleviates the conditions that define torture. Plus I haven't seen any credible evidence that it obtained any decent intelligence. What I see is time and time again are agents either from the CIA, FBI or Army Intelligence officers who say this doesn't work. The rebuttal to this is a politician usually Republican saying that this technique has saved lifes. Of course this is always without specifics or is easily debunked with a little research.
    Lets investigate and find out the truth and if it is found people broke the law let's prosecute them.

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