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Thread: Oboma's Morals Don't Trump Our Safety

  1. #11
    Senior Member Joe S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    Jeff, I might agree with you if the torture methods used were really torture and not just trumped up media fascination with anything that's not sweet-talking and providing creature comforts to criminals. I agree there are some things that have been done were improper and those, I believe, are best dealt with internally, not judged in the court of public opinion on the internet and on the pages of the mainstream media. I also believe that our military and defense agencies should have some tools at their disposal to use to extract vital national security information from captured enemy combatants that the general public does not need to know about or pass judgment on. I'm not advocating dragging bloated, beheaded corpses down Pennsylvania Avenue. But if waterboarding would've prevented the events of Sept. 11 the ends would've justified the means.
    Julie -

    Have you been waterboarded?

    Kind Regards,

    Joe S.
    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin

  2. #12
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    If I were John Walsh or the father of Jessica Lunsford or some other child that had been kidnapped and assaulted by a pervert, I would HOPE the cops DID use tough interrogation methods to try and find my child alive. By the same token, I don't care what form of pressure the CIA or Mil Int types use on suspected bigshots in the terrorist are us camps, so long as the information gleaned is good info most of the time. All comrade Osama is doing is taking the press spotlight off his own lack of success on any front, and giving the liberal media a reason to jump on fmr Pres Bush. He (Osama) is likely also killing morale among those field agents from CIA and other govt organizations that are risking their gonads trying to get info to protect US.
    Bob Gutermuth
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    ROLL TIDE!

  3. #13
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
    Julie -

    Have you been waterboarded?

    Kind Regards,

    Joe S.

    I kinda think she might enjoy it.......

    the kind you don't bring home to mother....... (one of her favorites singers I bet) regards
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  4. #14
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    For all you people who defend Bush and his torture tactics can you please , please show me some evidence that it worked. You all go on and defend him for using these methods but have yet to show how it has done anything. This stuff does not work. If you are confused read that sentence again or provide some proof.
    Not only does it not work it is against the law. What is so hard to understand about that. Julie in one of her posts admits that maybe everything may not have been kosher with what went on but goes on to say that these things should discussed and decided behind closed doors, not in the mainstream media and elsewhere. That leads me to believe that she thinks it should be a 2 tier legal system. One for the political elites, and another for the common folk. Lets hold them accountable , this is not about politics it is about right and wrong. It is not about some ideological believe like some would have you think. What could be more idealogical than believing in a have and have not legal system.
    And then for all you people of religion, of which I know there are quite a few, this is morally wrong also.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    For all you people who defend Bush and his torture tactics can you please , please show me some evidence that it worked. You all go on and defend him for using these methods but have yet to show how it has done anything. This stuff does not work.
    You folks are the one's doing the criticizing , why don't you provide conclusive proof of your statements. I believe it will work under the right circumstances. BTW, these were interrogation methods that have been time tested & were not GW's exclusively.

    Your guy is proving himself to be so clueless that you folks can only criticize past issues? On whose watch was the CIA originally gutted?
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  6. #16
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    For all you people who defend Bush and his torture tactics can you please , please show me some evidence that it worked. You all go on and defend him for using these methods but have yet to show how it has done anything. This stuff does not work. If you are confused read that sentence again or provide some proof.
    Not only does it not work it is against the law. What is so hard to understand about that. Julie in one of her posts admits that maybe everything may not have been kosher with what went on but goes on to say that these things should discussed and decided behind closed doors, not in the mainstream media and elsewhere. That leads me to believe that she thinks it should be a 2 tier legal system. One for the political elites, and another for the common folk. Lets hold them accountable , this is not about politics it is about right and wrong. It is not about some ideological believe like some would have you think. What could be more idealogical than believing in a have and have not legal system.
    And then for all you people of religion, of which I know there are quite a few, this is morally wrong also.
    You know it is a hard concept to get around in our right to know everything world, but maybe, just maybe there are things that we do not need to know and being known by every Tom Dick and Abdul in the world could be a bad thing. I am pretty sure since the beginning of our great nation men have done bad things in order to protect us. Asking us to prove that it did work is not as easy as one of us dialing up the Pentagon and asking for proof.
    One of my Nephews (one of many nephews serving or that have) was in a Striker force and he is an interrogator. What level did he interrogate to I donít know, but I do know that having very similar conversations with him he has said they gained valuable information more times than not. He currently works for a ďprivate firmĒ in Iraq doing interrogations for the Navy. What is the Navy doing in Iraq, well he is generally with a SEAL team and interrogates those who can provide information. I can tell you he is a good person and would not harm anyone simply for the fun of it. In fact it was not too many years ago when his mother asked me to have a talk with him because he was ready to quit HS football because he didnít like getting beat up all the time in games and practice. Those who criticize what is and has been done I feel donít firmly grasp what is at stake and that is easy to do sitting her on rtf and having never been face to face with those who mean us harm
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  7. #17
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    That leads me to believe that she thinks it should be a 2 tier legal system. One for the political elites, and another for the common folk.
    Uh, I've got news for you, there already is.
    For confirmation just look at members of, as well as failed nominees for, the current Administration.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    ________________________________________
    Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
    co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

  8. #18
    Senior Member Jerry D Herring's Avatar
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    look all that i know is i am here in the shit. sorry for the language. but i really dont care. but i am pretty sure that i read that Frm Pres Clinton had comrade osama and a silver platter and everyone told him to act and he didnt. so its not just one administrations mess up. i just know that i cant shoot back at the enemy until i can positivley identify that he was shooting at me. i cant get a CAB if i am hit by a mortar while walking to the chow hall because it wasnt "defenitive enemy contact" but some guy in virginia can get a bronze star for sitting behind a computer and dropping a bomb from a UAV. explain to me how thats right. you know we all dont agree with alot of things but i think if what they were doing is wrong then you know in the end when they meet the man upstairs he will give them what they deserve if it was wrong. so there are so many things that tie my hands here that if they capture that guy that did the bombing and they smack him around a little bit then so be it. if it gets them just an inkling of information then it served its purpose. i by no means condone or disapprove of their methods. i think if you are willing to blow yourself up to kill thousands then you getting smacked around buy a few people trying to get you tell them something then what right do you have to bitch. and who are you bleeding hearts that think these people have rights. hell we dont have rights when they capture us. hell they freaking chop our heads off!!!!! i dont know maybe im just ranting because i am tired of seeing my battle buddie get blown up and there was something they could do about it and didnt because someone said it was wrong. i think people are put in situations and they make an on the spot decision. if that decision is right or wrong then so be it they will get punished in the end. if what those guys did at gitmo helped then who cares if what they did didnt get results then they probably would have only done it once. and tried something else. i know what i am saying probably dont make sense to you or it just sounds like a rant but i have a point. sometimes you have to fight evil with evil. not saying that it right. i just hope that yall dont interpret this the wrong way. thanks for listening.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry D Herring View Post

    " if they capture that guy that did the bombing and they smack him around a little bit then so be it. if it gets them just an inkling of information then it served its purpose. i by no means condone or disapprove of their methods. i think if you are willing to blow yourself up to kill thousands then you getting smacked around buy a few people trying to get you tell them something then what right do you have to bitch.
    Couldn't say it better myself, well put.

    Shame on our treasonist Federal Government! What we lack is leadership on the Federal level.

    Am I the only one that beleives that Congress, and the White House are out of control?
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  10. #20
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Booty View Post
    Couldn't say it better myself, well put.

    Shame on our treasonist Federal Government! What we lack is leadership on the Federal level.

    Am I the only one that beleives that Congress, and the White House are out of control?

    Franco do you read this forum, you are not alone

    BTW- that is a nice looking dog in your avatar. Who is he/she
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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