Oboma's Morals Don't Trump Our Safety

[Matt McKenzie]

look all that i know is i am here in the shit. sorry for the language. but i really dont care. but i am pretty sure that i read that Frm Pres Clinton had comrade osama and a silver platter and everyone told him to act and he didnt. so its not just one administrations mess up. i just know that i cant shoot back at the enemy until i can positivley identify that he was shooting at me. i cant get a CAB if i am hit by a mortar while walking to the chow hall because it wasnt "defenitive enemy contact" but some guy in virginia can get a bronze star for sitting behind a computer and dropping a bomb from a UAV. explain to me how thats right. you know we all dont agree with alot of things but i think if what they were doing is wrong then you know in the end when they meet the man upstairs he will give them what they deserve if it was wrong. so there are so many things that tie my hands here that if they capture that guy that did the bombing and they smack him around a little bit then so be it. if it gets them just an inkling of information then it served its purpose. i by no means condone or disapprove of their methods. i think if you are willing to blow yourself up to kill thousands then you getting smacked around buy a few people trying to get you tell them something then what right do you have to bitch. and who are you bleeding hearts that think these people have rights. hell we dont have rights when they capture us. hell they freaking chop our heads off!!!!! i dont know maybe im just ranting because i am tired of seeing my battle buddie get blown up and there was something they could do about it and didnt because someone said it was wrong. i think people are put in situations and they make an on the spot decision. if that decision is right or wrong then so be it they will get punished in the end. if what those guys did at gitmo helped then who cares if what they did didnt get results then they probably would have only done it once. and tried something else. i know what i am saying probably dont make sense to you or it just sounds like a rant but i have a point. sometimes you have to fight evil with evil. not saying that it right. i just hope that yall dont interpret this the wrong way. thanks for listening.

Jerry,
Don't worry about what these couch potatoes have to say. It isn't that they are stupid, it's just that they know so much that just ain't so. You just keep on doing what you're doing and stay safe.

[Franco]

Franco do you read this forum, you are not alone

BTW- that is a nice looking dog in your avatar. Who is he/she

Yes I do, just looking for a big AMEN!

That's my pup, I call him Chevalier. It's French for knight since his reg. name is The Dark Knight II. Best Batman movie ever.

He's by FC AFC Shaq and out of a MH dam by FC AFC Star II.

That pick was when he was 4 months old he just turned 5 months!
He just finished teething. Taught him hold a month a ago and I can walk him on lead with him holding a soft knobby plastic bumper. He great with sit, I place him on a four inch high platform and he'll sit for 3 minutes, just watching me at 20 feet away. I've been doing some push/pull on the platform getting him to heel around to the left and right. Also, doing simple casting including backs off the platform. He is going to Mark Smith when he turns 5.5 months old. He's already been CC'd on "here" and "sit", I did that while he was teething.

[BrianW]

Am I the only one that beleives that Congress, and the White House are out of control?

No, the Congress/WH are in perfect control.
Whoever is writing what their teleprompters tell them to say is the one out of control!

[cotts135]

This is how torture is defined. The whole excerpt can be found here:http://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-ter....do?id=1107981

What is torture?

Torture cannot be defined by a list of prohibited practices. Human rights treaties define it in a number of different ways, reflecting the different contexts in which they were drafted and the purposes of each particular treaty.

The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1984 and entered into force on June 26, 1987.

It defines torture as any act by which:

severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental; is intentionally inflicted on a person; for such purposes as:

* obtaining from him/her or a third person information or a confession
* punishing him/her for an act s/he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed
* intimidating or coercing him/her or a third person
* or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind;

when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.*

Every act of torture is a crime under international law.

* If torture is committed in an armed conflict, it constitutes the war crime of torture.
* If torture is committed as part of a systematic or a widespread pattern of similar acts, it constitutes the crime against humanity of torture.
* The Convention against Torture prohibits torture as an independent crime, as a war crime, and as a crime against humanity, absolutely and in all circumstances.
* The Geneva Conventions prohibit the war crime of torture in both international wars and internal conflicts such as civil wars or rebellions.
* The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court prohibits torture when it constitutes genocide, a crime against humanity or a war crime.

Are there exceptions to the prohibition against torture?

No. Article 2(2) of the Convention states that: "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture."

The prohibition of torture has a special status in international law. It is part of customary international law, which means it is binding on all states, whether or not they have ratified any of the international human rights treaties.

The prohibition on torture is also a ''peremptory norm,'' which means that it cannot be overruled by any other law or by local custom.

The United States ratified the Convention against Torture in October 1994. The Convention entered into force for the United States on November 20, 1994.

[YardleyLabs]

Good post. In case it's not obvious, ratification of a treaty requires submission by the President -- in this case Clinton -- and ratification by a 2/3 vote majority of the Senate. A ratified treaty has the full effect of law in the United States.

[Don Smith]

Have you been waterboarded?

I've not been waterboarded, but I've seen it demonstrated on TV 4 or 5 times. Perhaps I'm missing something, but what I'm seeing is nothing compared to what they did to us at He!! night in the fraternity in undergrad school. This is NOT like the waterboarding that the Japanese did during WWII - with salt water, filling up the stomach and then jumping up and down on it. And putting a catapillar in the cell with a terrorist frightened of insects and sleep deprivation seems pretty mild to me.

[steved05]

"especially the high priests Cheney and Rove"
What does Obama know? Who will his high priests be? Let's not forget even Palin had more experience then he did.

[zeus3925]

Bash on, Jeff! I don't know why these guys get their dander up when ever the last administration gets criticized. I hope never to see the likes of them again!

[Goose]

Dear Leader's Administration has clearly defined what torture is........having to pay taxes.

[badbullgator]

Yes I do, just looking for a big AMEN!

That's my pup, I call him Chevalier. It's French for knight since his reg. name is The Dark Knight II. Best Batman movie ever.

He's by FC AFC Shaq and out of a MH dam by FC AFC Star II.

That pick was when he was 4 months old he just turned 5 months!
He just finished teething. Taught him hold a month a ago and I can walk him on lead with him holding a soft knobby plastic bumper. He great with sit, I place him on a four inch high platform and he'll sit for 3 minutes, just watching me at 20 feet away. I've been doing some push/pull on the platform getting him to heel around to the left and right. Also, doing simple casting including backs off the platform. He is going to Mark Smith when he turns 5.5 months old. He's already been CC'd on "here" and "sit", I did that while he was teething.

Very nice. Enjoy the ride