A question for conservatives

[road kill]

Here is an interesting point;

Being somewhat involved in Christianity and the work of some Churchs I have noticed that quite often as individuals mature, they turn to Religion (with out getting to deep) for salvation, forgiveness, direction and fulfillment.
These individuals I am refering to are former prostitutes, felons, women who had abortions and (yep you guessed it) homo-sexuals.

I have never seen a Christian, on the other hand, turn to prostitution, crime, abortion or homo-sexuality.

Can anyone explain this to me??

just askin'

[YardleyLabs]

Jeff,

Would your "church" be open to inviting Paedophiles to speak? You may have according to the NAMbLA group.

In keeping with that theme how about this from overseas...from 2006 (how long until it reaches our shores?):

Judge HFM Hofhuis ruled that the Brotherly Love, Freedom and Diversity Party (PNVD) had the same right to exist as any other political party.
The PNVD was formed by three paedophiles in May, prompting outrage in Dutch society. It seeks to lower the age of sexual consent from 16 to 12 and legalise child pornography and sex with animals...the PNVD...says its aim is to break taboos and fight intolerance and that it wants paedophilia to be freely discussed, arguing that a ban just makes children curious.

Sounds just like what you, and your "church", are promoting Jeff with the liberal approach of exposing children to taboo sexual situations in the forms of gay, lesbian, bi, trans, and/or whatever else you can conjure up type lifestyles and allowing them to become comfortable with the differences...give me a break. Where is the leadership? Where is the moral foundation? Where is the logic in that?

Seems like the approach I quoted earlier is working with your crowd Jeff...here it is again in part:



I say, again, that is simply a total disregard for proper parenting than to do anything other than look out for the well being and best interests of our children. To expose them to such outrageous nonsense is not responsible at best.

Gee, if they succeed in doing all that it will be just like Tennessee when I was born and marriages of 12 year olds were both legal and not that uncommon. In fact, my mother's roommate in the hospital where I was born in 1949 was just such a child bride. Her family married her off to her 14 year old cousin and the two of them lived with an aunt until he saved enough money to buy them a house. It became the basis for a short story my mother published in 1950.

If you want to identify the most likely culprits for sexual assault, I suggest that heterosexual men be your targets because they are the ones who are almost always involved. Their victim will generally be a female -- often under age -- of the same race. There is a good chance that the victim will be a relative, a family friend, or a person in a position of authority such as a minister or teacher. Given that, I assume you would agree that inviting a heterosexual man to be minister in a church or to teach in a school is an open invitation to pedophiles to attack our children. The way to protect against pedophiles is to protect against pedophiles, not to attack everyone who is not heterosexual.

Keith, my kids are now 35 and 27 respectively. One is married with children and the other will be married in August. They are incredible people and I wish you the good fortune of having your children turn out as well. I am actually very proud of the role I played in their lives as their father.

[Hew]

I have never seen a Christian, on the other hand, turn to prostitution, crime, abortion or homo-sexuality.

You've never personally known any or you're not aware of any? With google and five minutes I could come up with a list of at least 100 CLERGY who'd fit the bill.

[road kill]

You've never personally known any or you're not aware of any? With google and five minutes I could come up with a list of at least 100 CLERGY who'd fit the bill.

I am not part of that particular church.

I have personally witnessed several individuals turn to JC.


BTW---most of those you reference eventually realize the error in their ways as well, and did not turn to said vice at maturity. They were there from early on and used the position to their advantage.

As I said, once they mature they seek another direction.

(not all BTW, just some)

[Cody Covey]

Gee, if they succeed in doing all that it will be just like Tennessee when I was born and marriages of 12 year olds were both legal and not that uncommon. In fact, my mother's roommate in the hospital where I was born in 1949 was just such a child bride. Her family married her off to her 14 year old cousin and the two of them lived with an aunt until he saved enough money to buy them a house. It became the basis for a short story my mother published in 1950.

If you want to identify the most likely culprits for sexual assault, I suggest that heterosexual men be your targets because they are the ones who are almost always involved. Their victim will generally be a female -- often under age -- of the same race. There is a good chance that the victim will be a relative, a family friend, or a person in a position of authority such as a minister or teacher. Given that, I assume you would agree that inviting a heterosexual man to be minister in a church or to teach in a school is an open invitation to pedophiles to attack our children. The way to protect against pedophiles is to protect against pedophiles, not to attack everyone who is not heterosexual.

Keith, my kids are now 35 and 27 respectively. One is married with children and the other will be married in August. They are incredible people and I wish you the good fortune of having your children turn out as well. I am actually very proud of the role I played in their lives as their father.

Jeff you are a smart guy. Lets talk science for a bit here. In order for it to be not a choice there would have to be a gene for it. In order for there to be a gene for it there would have to be some evolutionary benefit to homosexuality. Also with no one being able to reproduce how was this gene spread. The possibility of it being a recessive gene and passing along through the ages of man and not becoming extinct are grossly improbable. If you can find me a evolutionary reason for there to be a gay gene then please go ahead and let me know(I am curious about this so if you can think of one i would love to have the discusion.)

Also if its not a choice then aren't you saying that being gay is a birth defect?

[YardleyLabs]

Jeff you are a smart guy. Lets talk science for a bit here. In order for it to be not a choice there would have to be a gene for it. In order for there to be a gene for it there would have to be some evolutionary benefit to homosexuality. Also with no one being able to reproduce how was this gene spread. The possibility of it being a recessive gene and passing along through the ages of man and not becoming extinct are grossly improbable. If you can find me a evolutionary reason for there to be a gay gene then please go ahead and let me know(I am curious about this so if you can think of one i would love to have the discusion.)

Also if its not a choice then aren't you saying that being gay is a birth defect?

Have you ever seen male dogs humping other male dogs or female dogs humping each other? Nature has many behaviors, some of which are clear aids to survival and others of which, as far as we know, serve no obvious purpose (e.g., the appendix). Largely because of the openness of my church, I have come to know many homosexuals, most of whom are involved in long term monogamous relationships and many of whom have children -- either by adoption or from an earlier marriage. Without exception, every one knew that he or she was homosexual before reaching puberty. There was no time in their lives when they were even vaguely attracted to a person of the opposite sex, even though many of them married in the hope that might somehow "cure" them. In fact, it only served to spread the pain even further. Homosexuality has existed as long as humans have existed. I suspect that one or more of the people sitting at the table for the Last Supper was gay.

With respect to genetic components, I suspect that there may be some. Clearly gender, which we classify simply into male/female, is more of a continuum: male/female/other. Some babies are hermaphroditic at birth and have their gender assigned arbitrarily by the attending physician.

Are variations in sexual orientation a "birth defect"? Not in the manner that we currently use to classify variations among individuals. There is nothing crippling about homosexuality except society's irrational response. In that sense, it is no more of a hindrance to the individual, in the absence of society's reactions, than being left handed in a right handed world. The "cure" lies in changing social attitudes, not in "eliminating" the "condition". For years, homosexuality was treated as a mental illness. All efforts at "treatment" failed, leaving a wide wake of destruction in their path. Who knows, maybe homosexuality is linked genetically to the "designer" gene and eliminating it would condem us all to living in a gray world. Our strengths come from diversity, not homogeneity.

[Pete]

The problem with this whole deal is the the H/sex community seeks to recriut new blood. They target 12-20 year olds who are very impressionable. And see sex as an exciting and new adventure. Their minds can be easily persuaded in many cases.
I know I found myself in that situation many decades ago. However I was mentally and spiritually strong enough to walk away. There were grown men involved also not just kids being stupid. So much of what goes on today is a product of very sly marketing.
Its sick and so are those who are subversive to ruin the lives of our kids for the sake of their insatiable lusts.

Pete

[Cody Covey]

Have you ever seen male dogs humping other male dogs or female dogs humping each other? Nature has many behaviors, some of which are clear aids to survival and others of which, as far as we know, serve no obvious purpose (e.g., the appendix). Largely because of the openness of my church, I have come to know many homosexuals, most of whom are involved in long term monogamous relationships and many of whom have children -- either by adoption or from an earlier marriage. Without exception, every one knew that he or she was homosexual before reaching puberty. There was no time in their lives when they were even vaguely attracted to a person of the opposite sex, even though many of them married in the hope that might somehow "cure" them. In fact, it only served to spread the pain even further. Homosexuality has existed as long as humans have existed. I suspect that one or more of the people sitting at the table for the Last Supper was gay.

With respect to genetic components, I suspect that there may be some. Clearly gender, which we classify simply into male/female, is more of a continuum: male/female/other. Some babies are hermaphroditic at birth and have their gender assigned arbitrarily by the attending physician.

Are variations in sexual orientation a "birth defect"? Not in the manner that we currently use to classify variations among individuals. There is nothing crippling about homosexuality except society's irrational response. In that sense, it is no more of a hindrance to the individual, in the absence of society's reactions, than being left handed in a right handed world. The "cure" lies in changing social attitudes, not in "eliminating" the "condition". For years, homosexuality was treated as a mental illness. All efforts at "treatment" failed, leaving a wide wake of destruction in their path. Who knows, maybe homosexuality is linked genetically to the "designer" gene and eliminating it would condem us all to living in a gray world. Our strengths come from diversity, not homogeneity.

and those behaviors are just that...behaviors. choices. the dogs don't hump each other out of anything sexual. its more a dominance issue so comparing dogs humping to humans choosing a parnter doesn't make much sense.

[YardleyLabs]

and those behaviors are just that...behaviors. choices. the dogs don't hump each other out of anything sexual. its more a dominance issue so comparing dogs humping to humans choosing a parnter doesn't make much sense.

I believe having sex is a choice. I believe sexual orientation is innate although, like gender itself, is probably more of a continuum than an absolute, including people who are clearly homosexual from early on, people who are clearly heterosexual, and people who could swing either way or both.

You were arguing that there is no possible genetic value to being homosexual. Based on that assumption, you infer that if it were a genetic condition that evolution would have eliminated it. Since it still exists, you conclude that it must be a choice.

That logic is impeccably....... ridiculous.

As I noted before, many conditions exist that appear on the surface, to serve no purpose. Some may in fact be useless or even counter productive but still survive after millions of years of evolution. Others may in fact appear useless until we intervene to eliminate them, only discovering afterward that they were linked to something desirable. Evolution is geared to meeting the need of the species, not the individual. The needs of the species are best met through diversity, not having everyone meet some ideal standard of perfection. My observation on canine behavior was simply a way of pointing out that nature's ways are seldom as clear cut as ideologues might prefer.

[JDogger]

Here is an interesting point;

Being somewhat involved in Christianity and the work of some Churchs I have noticed that quite often as individuals mature, they turn to Religion (with out getting to deep) for salvation, forgiveness, direction and fulfillment.
These individuals I am refering to are former prostitutes, felons, women who had abortions and (yep you guessed it) homo-sexuals.

I have never seen a Christian, on the other hand, turn to prostitution, crime, abortion or homo-sexuality.

Can anyone explain this to me??

just askin'

What about pedaphile priests?

Oh wait, thats right, they're catholics, not christians. Right RK?

JD