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Thread: Break out the credit card..But we can keep spending

  1. #11
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    I finally get the koolaid and ice cream thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I'm enjoyning a cold beer and waiting til about 6 til the pork butt comes off the smoker.

    Meat eater here,
    Regards

  2. #12
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Present day journalism bought into the koolaid and ice cream analogy, and will continue to promote it. They are vested in this corruption, and will go down with the ship, if there is any leadership on the other side to begin fighting.

    As I've stated many times, the left has run a successful campaign of dumbing down America. The new majority...the sheeple of the nation...have so little intelligence about what's happening to them, they just blindly hold out their hands for more ice cream. And you thought only drug addicts acted in this manner.

    UB
    "W" was the ideal POTUS for the dumbed down masses. Carl Rove and Sure Shot Dick had the country dumbed down long before Obama raised his head. Any smart politician would have taken advantage of it.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    "W" was the ideal POTUS for the dumbed down masses. Carl Rove and Sure Shot Dick had the country dumbed down long before Obama raised his head. Any smart politician would have taken advantage of it.

    You are way wrong, 3925. You in fact are a part of the dumbed down society, so it obviously began when you were in school. You and the rest of the leftist crowd are the enablers of all this Obama crap, so trust me when I slam the current leaders, I'm also slamming the rest of you sheeple that blindly follow the dismembering of our constitution.

    But then, why do you care? Probably don't have any grandkids that are being clobbered with the debts you and your party are piling on the future generations.

    And then you so proudly champion another absolute communist from your state...al frankin. Have you NO shame????

    I can't blame all those socialists now in charge of this once great nation, they are only grasping the brass ring you and all your mental midgets are providing them.

    I realize you don't give a damn if your grandkids are burdened with debt, and will be pushing 1 for mexican by the time they use a phone, but I will fight that as long as I can.

    And when your beloved Obama sends out his cadre to collect the guns, just don't be part of the group ringing my doorbell. I was sworn to live by Charlton's oath.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  4. #14
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    You are way wrong, 3925. You in fact are a part of the dumbed down society, so it obviously began when you were in school. You and the rest of the leftist crowd are the enablers of all this Obama crap, so trust me when I slam the current leaders, I'm also slamming the rest of you sheeple that blindly follow the dismembering of our constitution.

    But then, why do you care? Probably don't have any grandkids that are being clobbered with the debts you and your party are piling on the future generations.

    And then you so proudly champion another absolute communist from your state...al frankin. Have you NO shame????

    I can't blame all those socialists now in charge of this once great nation, they are only grasping the brass ring you and all your mental midgets are providing them.

    I realize you don't give a damn if your grandkids are burdened with debt, and will be pushing 1 for mexican by the time they use a phone, but I will fight that as long as I can.

    And when your beloved Obama sends out his cadre to collect the guns, just don't be part of the group ringing my doorbell. I was sworn to live by Charlton's oath.

    UB
    Sorry, Bill. Your shot in the dark missed. Never was part of the dumbed down society. I grew up in a large extended family where politics was played as a team sport and participation was expected. I attended a religious high school where activism was encouraged. I have been an activist on non-partisan issues most of my adult life, but that doesn't equate to liberalism. And, again, you miss the mark by calling anyone that does not subscribe to the agenda of the Extreme Right a "socialist." I have an equal amount of dislike for the Extreme Left, as I do for the Extreme Right. The Extreme Left generally doesn't post here.

    I have had a fair amount of grounding in constitutional law. I have not seen anything so far from the Obama crowd that is an egregious affront to the Constitution. Certainly, not to extent the violation of individual rights and liberties were perpetrated by W. and Sure Shot Dick. But, being a good Republican, I am sure you will try to deny and obfuscate all of that.

    I don't know if Al Franken is a communist or not. I didn't vote for him. I don't vote for pro-wrasslers or professional funny men. Ya missed again!

    The bailout, if you can remember started, under W. Obama just continued it. I voted for Obama as he had somewhat of a clue on the depth of the economic crisis, whereas, Mc Cain did not.

    Am I not comfortable with the hemorrhage of money going to Wall Street. But the choice is not an easy one. Do you let the country sink deep into a depression or do you do you do something to back stop it? I am for actively engaging the problem -- now. All I have heard from the the Republicans is bitch and moan, and Cold War name calling dredged up from the 1950's. When they solve their leadership problem, maybe we'll see something meaningful from them.

    I am concerned that the call for smaller government has translated into the withdrawal of oversight. That has gotten us exactly where we are today. My concern is that the oversight is too slow and too late in coming. I also am concerned with government ownership of common stock.

    This financial crisis has been brewing for a long time. The Obama crowd is too new to the game to write the critique, yet. I can't say my patience is eternal, though.

    I am a firm supporter of Second Amendment rights. But, I believe we must do something to the reduce violent use of firearms, if we are going to keep our guns. That something does not include confiscation.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments. Care to provide any thoughts on my newest two threads? I really am interested in what causes an American to support an obvious tyrant. And please stop with the Bush bashing...your party is now in charge up to it's bungholes...live with it.

    Are you a "union ubber alles" type. If so, that would tell me all I need to know, and we can stop blowing smoke at each other, because it is of no value.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    I have had a fair amount of grounding in constitutional law. I have not seen anything so far from the Obama crowd that is an egregious affront to the Constitution. Certainly, not to extent the violation of individual rights and liberties were perpetrated by W. and Sure Shot Dick. But, being a good Republican, I am sure you will try to deny and obfuscate all of that.

    Chrysler bondholders being told to accept .29 cents on the dollar while the unions get .50 per Obama, Trying to taint the bankruptcy by release of this fact, Release of CIA information on interrogation, Future release of the CIA photos (yes he will it is only an act that he won't), Allowing the SEIU to strong arm the state of Kaliflower to demand rights and priviliges
    in order to recieve "STIMLAS" $$$, Giving the UAW GM (GOVERNMENT MOTORS AND CHRSYLER), Strong arming business inregards to how much their suits get paid, Demanding that financial institutions take TARP MONIES, Not allowing the financial institutions to pay back TARP money, even the ones who are finacially solvent, Passing a budget without allowing anyone voting on it to read it prior to voting. This punk is going to make Nixon and WATERGATE look TAME.

    Chew on These Awhile
    Just Win

  7. #17
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Thanks for your comments. Care to provide any thoughts on my newest two threads? I really am interested in what causes an American to support an obvious tyrant. And please stop with the Bush bashing...your party is now in charge up to it's bungholes...live with it.

    Are you a "union ubber alles" type. If so, that would tell me all I need to know, and we can stop blowing smoke at each other, because it is of no value.
    UB
    I guess I don't see Obama as a "tyrant". I think Bush is still a relevant issue as he was on watch went south. The Book of W. is prologue to the Book of Obama. The first year in office is mainly tweaking the policiesleft behind by the previous guy. "W" will cease to be an issue as times goes by but right now he is still writ large.

    There are unions and there are unions. There are some I won't work in a shop they represent because either they are corrupt, in bed with management or just plain missing in action.

    I believe that if you are running a union you are charged by the nature of the beast to win the best contract regarding pay and working conditions possible for your membership. You are also obligated to negotiate a settlement to grievances in an equitable manner possible.

    I am not interested though in using a union for banditry-- either of its membership or the employer. Nor am I willing to accept a contract that throws money rather than dealing with a major unresolved management/labor issue. If you do that, the gripes come back in a matter of days and the game continues the next contract round.

    I guess the short answer is no to "union uber alles".
    Last edited by zeus3925; 05-17-2009 at 04:25 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  8. #18
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Little View Post

    Chrysler bondholders being told to accept .29 cents on the dollar while the unions get .50 per Obama, Trying to taint the bankruptcy by release of this fact, Release of CIA information on interrogation, Future release of the CIA photos (yes he will it is only an act that he won't), Allowing the SEIU to strong arm the state of Kaliflower to demand rights and priviliges
    in order to recieve "STIMLAS" $$$, Giving the UAW GM (GOVERNMENT MOTORS AND CHRSYLER), Strong arming business inregards to how much their suits get paid, Demanding that financial institutions take TARP MONIES, Not allowing the financial institutions to pay back TARP money, even the ones who are finacially solvent, Passing a budget without allowing anyone voting on it to read it prior to voting.
    None of that ia constitutional violation.

    Chrysler as an international company is subject the rules and regs of several countries, mainly the US, Canada and Mexico. I don't know what took the place in the negotiations. I do know the union lost the last contract round big time. Instead of ongoing pension being drawn from company coffers, the companies demanded and got out from under those obligations by shifting management to the union. The union was contracted to receive lump sum payments that were significantly less than the companies were obligated to pay under the old contract.

    As time went on the companies were unable to do that a lesser amount to the union was negotiated in all three national jurisdictions. My understanding was if the pensions obligation fell any lower, then more government money would be obligated to cover defunct pensions by legislation in place in the various countries. I don't know about you, but I am not for paying out government money to cover someone's pancaked pension plan.

    As for the bond holders, I think a simple presentation of facts rather than a dragooning was sufficient. Would you rather take 29 cents on the dollar or possibly get nothing in bankruptcy court. The major hang up in the Chrysler issue was not the union nor the bond holders but the dealer group. The company apparently has decided to chop off their heads.

    As for the "suits" don't expect me to grieve for them. They are big boys and can take care of themselves. An MBA is not a license to steal from the shareholders.

    You won't hear me sing praises to the SEIU anytime soon.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post

    As for the bond holders, I think a simple presentation of facts rather than a dragooning was sufficient. Would you rather take 29 cents on the dollar or possibly get nothing in bankruptcy court. The major hang up in the Chrysler issue was not the union nor the bond holders but the dealer group. The company apparently has decided to chop off their heads.

    In a "normal" bankruptcy court the secured bondholders would have received MUCH more than what they got. It is a fact that the WH PRESSURED the group of secured creditors with threats so they would accept the cramdown.

    So, now the unions own the company....who do they negotiate with when their next contract comes up??? THEMSELVES! Chrysler has no chance now, neither will GM if the same happens to them. They will run it into the ground and all BHO did was postpone the inevitable.

    Never buying a Chrysler or GM ever regards,

  10. #20
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Noel View Post
    In a "normal" bankruptcy court the secured bondholders would have received MUCH more than what they got. It is a fact that the WH PRESSURED the group of secured creditors with threats so they would accept the cramdown.

    So, now the unions own the company....who do they negotiate with when their next contract comes up??? THEMSELVES! Chrysler has no chance now, neither will GM if the same happens to them. They will run it into the ground and all BHO did was postpone the inevitable.

    Never buying a Chrysler or GM ever regards,
    Mike, I definitely don't like a union owning the company. I understand the stock is in lieu of the payments to the pension fund with the idea of selling it off latter at a profit when he company bounces back. The proceeds are to cover the reduction in payments to the health and pension funds. Still this is way to prone to conflicts of interests.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 05-17-2009 at 05:11 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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