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Thread: The "right to vote" for POTUS

  1. #11
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    The only time I ever thought about somehow restricitng who could vote was after I voted in the general elction this past fall. The thought of only allowing property owners to vote went through my mind. It isn't something I'd advocate but, I did think about it.

    I had the feeling that in the past general election there were people who voted to "get theirs" as oppesed to voting on their beliefs and values. This may not have been true but what I saw and heard in my polling place made me feel this way. In our recent local election I didn't sense this since I was the only voter in the polling place when I voted.

    I do think convicted felons have given up their right to vote.

    I think, at least in Ohio, we have made it too easy to vote. there was a period of time where you could register and vote at the same time. Voting is fundamental to our government. I don't think catching someone at a Starbuck's, McDonald's, UDF, etc., and talking them in to voting is appropriate. If you don't care enough about the election to vote on election day. Or, plan far enough in advance to get an absentee ballot then you shouldn't vote.

    Tom

    Property owners would be to elitists. Just because someone can’t of does not own property does not mean they are incapable of casting an educated vote. I think there are many, many, many non property owners that are definitely capable of voting. I would be interested in why you would think that one?

    I don’t think all felons are created equally and I am not sure why the right to vote must be given up in most cases. Maybe if your felony involved election fraud, but really why should someone with felony not be allowed to vote. What are you afraid of? Paid the price why can’t they vote? I don’t necessarily feel the same about gun laws regarding felons, but I think not having the right to vote is kind of silly in most cases.


    Now I do totally agree that it has been made too easy to vote. If you are too lazy to go and register you probably should not be voting because you are probably too lazy to take the time to know much about the candidates. I don’t like the idea of people sitting outside stores trying to “recruit” votes to register. I also would not be against a raise in the age to vote. I have been voting since I was 20, but I will be the first to admit that I knew very little about the world at that age.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  2. #12
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    Hell, why have the right to vote at all. Just ask George Bush.

    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —President-elect George W. Bush, at a photo-op with congressional leaders during his first trip to Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

  3. #13
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The right to vote is not defined explicitly in the Constitution but is there implicitly in many places. The right to vote may not be limited based on race (14th amendment) or gender (19th amendment). It may not be restricted based on age if you are 18 or older (26th amendment) or based on failure to pay poll taxes or any other taxes (24th amendment). One could also argue that voting was implicit in the Declaration of Independence which stated that "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

    Personally, I believe that all persons that are citizens and legally adult should be able to vote without further restriction. I oppose anything that would base voting on demonstrated "competence" since the definition of "competence" would of necessity come from the consent of the governing rather than from the consent of the governed. As you think of empowering the government to make decisions about who is or is not a legitimate voter, remember that the government making those decisions may be one that you hate. BTW, consistent with my overall belief, I believe that it should also be illegal to prevent mental patients, prisoners, or convicted felons from voting. Governments have been using claims of insanity and criminality as a vehicle for denying the vote for as long as there have been elections.

    While those amendments did away with restrictions to the right to vote granted by the States or the right to vote for Representatives to Congress, I disagree that there is an implicit "right to vote" in a Presidential election anywhere in the Constitution. Article II explicitly states how the President is elected and there is nothing in it mentioning a popular vote. It explicitly states that the state legislatures select the electors by whatever means they choose. It is obvious by reading the Constitution that the only Federal office chosen directly by the people was that of Representative. The State legislatures selected Senators and Electors by whatever method they wanted. The 17th Amendment changed the way Senators are selected and the individual States have chosen popular vote to select electors. In the process, the individual States have lost representation in Washington, and the Federal Government has grown far beyond the bounds initially envisioned by the founders.

    If competence is not a requirement, why is age a factor? If we should allow convicted felons, those declared legally insane or all of our fellow citizens who can't name the three branches of government the "right to vote", why can't my 14-year-old vote? He is more qualified to make an informed decision than most of these people. Just a guess here, but I assume that the original reason for limiting sufferage to those over 18 years old has something to do with maturity, education and competence. Why an age requirement?
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

  4. #14
    Senior Member Goose's Avatar
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    Anybody who voted for Dear Leader should be permanently banned from voting again. They should take up residence in Cuba, China, Russia or Venezuela and vote there.

    Anybody on active duty military should have his vote count double.

    Anybody who voted for Ronald Reagan in the 80's should have his vote counted 1.5 times.

    And anybody living in Nancy Pelosi's district should be banned forever!

  5. #15
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Corey,

    My thought process on property ownership was that property owners have a higher stake in our country. But, note, I mentioned this was something I though about but not something I am advocating. That would definately create a ruling class in our country. Our founders never imagined our government would become the support for such a large portion of our citizens.

    As far at the felons go, most convicted felons committed their crimes with the knowledge, and intent, to break the law. If you do not have have enough respect for the laws of our country you should not be voting for the lawmakers of our country.

    I feel gun ownership is very important. But, not as important as the right to vote. Reckless, illegal voting is much more dangerous to our nation than recklass gun ownership. In some states it is much easier to vote, even multiple times, than to buy a gun. I grew up in IL. To own a gun or buy ammunition I had to have a state issued FOID, Firearm Ownership ID, card. It included my picture. I may have had to submit fingerprints too. I don't remember. It was more difficult than getting a drivers license. Growing up in Cook County I was aware at an early age of the power of the vote and how it can be manipulated.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  6. #16
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    ...why can't my 14-year-old vote? He is more qualified to make an informed decision than most of these people. Just a guess here, but I assume that the original reason for limiting sufferage to those over 18 years old has something to do with maturity, education and competence. Why an age requirement?
    Actually, there is no Federal minimum age to vote. If your state so chose, it could adopt any minimum age as long as it was no older than 18.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    As a person that has to use Absentee ballots to cast my vote, I believe they should count and those in the military should also count. Enough of trying to decide who won the Minnesota senate seat. Whom ever wins the senate seat should be chosen by the vote not the courts.

    I may not have voted the winner, but 7 months after the election it is to be decided in the court. The problem absentee ballots from soldiers in the remote areas are being questioned.
    Last edited by Richard Halstead; 05-18-2009 at 04:48 PM.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Hell, why have the right to vote at all. Just ask George Bush.

    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —President-elect George W. Bush, at a photo-op with congressional leaders during his first trip to Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
    You're like a broken record player...with the needle stuck on "La Macarena." In spanish. By the chimpmunks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5GiN...eature=related

  9. #19
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Hell, why have the right to vote at all. Just ask George Bush.

    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —President-elect George W. Bush, at a photo-op with congressional leaders during his first trip to Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

    Hey Roger yo do know Dubya is now retired in Craford dont ya.

    Do you want to talk about Bill " I did not have sex" Clinton
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  10. #20
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    I think only sole property owners that pass a basic Civics Test in English should have the right to vote and pay a poll tax!

    On another voting subject;

    Several states dominated by Democrats are going to be asking for a bailout. States like California, Massachusetts, Michigan and Florida are in deep financial doo doo. We know how this current administration likes to throw money at every concieved problem so, should these states loose the right to vote if they get bailed out with borrowed money that tax payers will have to repay one day?
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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