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Thread: The politics of torture

  1. #11
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    so by that article Bush and Cheney did nothing wrong, right? They just did what they were told was legal.

  2. #12
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Subroc, without question your entitled to your opinion, what I would like to know is what it is based on?...
    As you say, it is an opinion. Just like legal opinion. I base my opinion of what constitutes torture on something very simple like phisical harm, examples might be flaying, cutting off fingers and hands with a bolt cutter, blow torching an extremity, breaking every bone in a body, dragging someone behand a car with frequent stops for questioning, those are the types of things that I consider torture. I consider discomfort that is designed to extact information, like water boarding, sleep deprivation, isolation, etc. that doesn't leave any more of a scar than lowered self esteeme or emotional scars little more than an enhanced interogation technique and not really worth the debate. But it appears that many in this country need, for political reasons or other motivations, to deem any interogation as torture.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    We seem to have beat this horse to death.

    Clinton clearly perjured himself. FDR incarcerated innocent American citizens because they happened to be Japanese. Nobody indicted either of them.

    Spending a ton of taxpayer money on this issue is probably is not worth it. No matter what the outcome, it won't change people's opinions of the issue.

    Sometimes it is better to take whatever we may have learned from an experience & move on.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  4. #14
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    As nothing has actually changed, except the location of the torture or not-quite-torture venues, I'm not sure what is being so hotly debated.

    Torture/not-torture and endless imprisonment without trial (or safeguarding the public, depending on your point of view, I suppose) in a concrete box in Afghanistan seems to me no more and no less sinister (or necessary, or whatever) from doing it in Cuba.

    Eh. Those who defend the Bush administration's tactics ought not to be upset with anything after 100+ days. Mr. Obama seems intent on simply following through on the various programs Mr. Bush got rolling, whether it's off-shore torture (or whatever) prisons or the melding of government and big business and banking.

    The only thing that seems to have changed is who's doing the impotent outraged handwringing and dramatics.

    You can rest easy, righties. New bumper sticker: Obama--Status quo we can believe in.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Here is a pretty good article on the subject...

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09144/972098-109.stm
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    In reading the Post-Gazette article, one sentence stood out:
    Just ask yourself, if you were captured would you betray your comrades because the enemy treated you nicely?


    Doesn't take a rocket scientist to respond, "Of course not."

    So, then, exactly what is permitted in questioning an enemy combatant and/or terrorist? Or should we expect that once someone is captured we shouldn't bother questioning them? Or should interrogators be limited to, "Please, would you tell me where Osama Bin Laden is right now?" Seems there might be some middle ground between that & "torture".
    Last edited by Gerry Clinchy; 05-24-2009 at 01:42 PM. Reason: typo
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #17
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    To those that think like cotts anything beyond a few calm questions constitutes torture. Asking several questions in a row would be badgering and that would constitute torture and to raise your voice would be form of vicious and severe intimidation and that is clearly torture.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    To those that think like cotts anything beyond a few calm questions constitutes torture. Asking several questions in a row would be badgering and that would constitute torture and to raise your voice would be form of vicious and severe intimidation and that is clearly torture.
    LOL! I think that there have been college professors who have done as much to their students in a classroom! Yeah, come to think of it, I have to admit that some of my college courses in math were torture
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  9. #19
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Stepping off a shore line while training and filling your boot with water and having to spend an hour or two with a wet boot is clearly torture...
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  10. #20
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Stepping off a shore line while training and filling your boot with water and having to spend an hour or two with a wet boot is clearly torture...
    That goes without saying.
    --Greta Ode
    willing slave to the whims of
    Kerrybrooks Magical Atticus MH
    Coastalight Kiowa Ravenhawk MH

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