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Thread: Postmodernism...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    Default Postmodernism...

    Brian McLaren is one of the so called faces of the emergent church movement; a postmodernistic religious movement utilizing a twisted view of Christianity as one of its drawing cards.

    Here is a statement found in A Generous Orthodoxy by McLaren and a link to his "clarification" of the statement...(just as an introduction to the way he thinks):


    "I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many (not all?) circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many 'Christian' religious contexts, either."
    His clarification: http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives...odoxy_237.html

    His statement and his clarification are in direct opposition to Paul's instructions to the Corinthian Christians regarding the same topic...2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20;&version=49


    The point, however, of this post is this...the link below is a response from Chuck Colson after McLaren wrote a response to an article Chuck wrote for Christianity Today. Chuck's response is one of the best condensed detailings I have read on the subject of postmodernism...well worth reading the entire response:

    http://www.brianmclaren.net/emc/arch...-response.html




    .
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

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    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    I didn't read the links, but I have to wonder, considering all the different brands of Christianity out there, how do we know which ones are "twisted" and which ones are not?
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

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    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    I didn't read the links, but I have to wonder, considering all the different brands of Christianity out there, how do we know which ones are "twisted" and which ones are not?
    Just noticed that was your 666th post.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    I didn't read the links, but I have to wonder, considering all the different brands of Christianity out there, how do we know which ones are "twisted" and which ones are not?

    Matt,

    Your question is framed in a sense of postmodernistic language...like that of Pilot who quipped "what is truth"; questions like his and yours are dubious.

    You should read the links...may help answer your questions. At any rate,
    there may be many "brands" of false Christianity but there is only one true Gospel. Paul vehemently warned the Christians at Galatia about false teachers peddling "another Gospel"...read the following verses if you wish:

    Galatians 1 (New American Standard Bible)

    6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting (L)Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a (M)different gospel;

    7which is really not another; only there are some who are (N)disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
    8But even if we, or (O)an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be (P)accursed! 9As we (Q)have said before, so I say again now, (R)if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be (S)accursed! (emphasis mine)

    The answer to your question rests on a firm foundation. That foundation is truth...which is what is being distorted in postmodernism and the emergent church movement...therefore, the term "twisted" is appropriate to distinguish their message from the truth found in scripture and as witnessed/directed by the Holy Spirit:

    John 16:13 (New American Standard Bible)

    13"But when He, (A)the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (B)guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. (emphasis mine)


    2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New American Standard Bible)

    16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that (B)the man of God may be adequate, (C)equipped for every good work.


    2 Peter 1:20-21 (New American Standard Bible)

    20But (A)know this first of all, that (B)no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21for (C)no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men (D)moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

    .
    Last edited by Keith Farmer; 05-27-2009 at 08:38 PM.
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Colson writes:

    "On the subject of Truth, let me say humbly that I consider myself a seeker. Pascal said once that there are only two kinds of people in the world, those who have given up to despair or donít think, and seekers. I want to stay in the latter. Postmodernists, by the way, are among the former, because, they say it doesnít matter. Believe me, Brian, it does."

    Having said this he then goes on in a manner that suggests that the answer lies in revealed truth which is absolute. I believe that in Pascal's thinking that would place him into the category of those "who have given up to despair or don't think."

    I believe that truth is more of a direction than an absolute destination. It is hidden behind an infinite number of onion like layers and each answer simply creates a new and often more subtle series of questions to be explored, sometimes driving us back to re-examine what we believe we already know with the perspective of what we have learned along the way. The Reformation and the Renaissance challenged orthodoxy with every breath. Descartes' examination began with first principles: Cogito ergo sum, I think therefore I am. It did not end with the acceptance of any gospel but laid out a process of infinite challenge. That is the spirit that led to the creation of our country and I hope it remains the spirit that will drive us.

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    Senior Member John Kelder's Avatar
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    Interesting reading . However , given that this is POTUS Place , the truth has no business here .....
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    [QUOTEJust noticed that was your 666th post.
    __________________
    Tremayne Fields
    ][/QUOTE]

    Priceless

    Its very easy to know a conterfiet when you know what the real thing looks like.
    If you don't know what the real thing looks like then its impossible to tell a conterfiet .
    There are many small churches which d a decent job of getting to the heart of God. They may not be 100 accurate but they are accurate on some of the stuff that gets you where you want to go someday. And that is probably the most important thing.

    It would take many life times to research and pin point everthing mentioned in the bible.

    But when some says you will own your own planet and become Gods or Follow the easter bunny and there is a dead saint for every flavor of ice cream then that might be a cue to investigate a little deeper

    Pete

  8. #8
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Colson writes:

    "On the subject of Truth, let me say humbly that I consider myself a seeker. Pascal said once that there are only two kinds of people in the world, those who have given up to despair or donít think, and seekers. I want to stay in the latter. Postmodernists, by the way, are among the former, because, they say it doesnít matter. Believe me, Brian, it does."

    Having said this he then goes on in a manner that suggests that the answer lies in revealed truth which is absolute. I believe that in Pascal's thinking that would place him into the category of those "who have given up to despair or don't think."

    I believe that truth is more of a direction than an absolute destination. It is hidden behind an infinite number of onion like layers and each answer simply creates a new and often more subtle series of questions to be explored, sometimes driving us back to re-examine what we believe we already know with the perspective of what we have learned along the way. The Reformation and the Renaissance challenged orthodoxy with every breath. Descartes' examination began with first principles: Cogito ergo sum, I think therefore I am. It did not end with the acceptance of any gospel but laid out a process of infinite challenge. That is the spirit that led to the creation of our country and I hope it remains the spirit that will drive us.
    Jeff, you could take the position that Colson ends up the victim of Pascal's scenario from just those two statements I don't think it fits in his case though. It shouldn't surprise you I have read a lot of Colson and his take on truth is very similar to what you described. And I must say I actually like the way you described truth, for me that is exactly what religion is, a direction and not a destination just to end up. Albeit with some truths that I believe to be absolute.


    The reformation did not challenge orthodoxy the reformation challenged abuses by the church. If anything the reformation served to more clearly define orthodoxy. It is similar to the renaissance in that many men with great minds were free to read, write,think and discuss. To my mind some of the greatest theological writings came out of this period.
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  9. #9
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    But when some says you will own your own planet and become Gods or Follow the easter bunny and there is a dead saint for every flavor of ice cream then that might be a cue to investigate a little deeper


    Pete, I really wish you would write a book,and not let anyone edit it. That is hilarious !
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists, Episcopalians, etc, etc, etc. Which ones are "false Christianity" and which ones preach the "one true gospel"? Save us the huge pile of scriptural quotes and just tell us what you believe.
    And in what way was my original question "dubious"?
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

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