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Thread: Postmodernism...

  1. #41
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    more spiritual religions such as in Buddism and Hinduism.
    So:

    Is spirtituality a result of emotion?

    Is spirtituality based on religious practice/conduct...orthopraxy? Or is spirituality based on religious belief...orthodoxy?

    Not really sure how the religions you listed are "more spirtitual"...just trying to warp...er wrap..my mind around your ideology Booty.



    .
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

  2. #42
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    Kieth
    Its futile to go back and forth on these issues because the internet is time consuming.

    But I believe and can prove the opposite. I dont care about who believes what I am only concerned in getting an accurate account of the word.

    its a book that has been tampered with for thousands of years but most things are easily traceable.

    God s word is logical and has 0 contradictions ,,,because God cannot lie like men. He built the earth which hangeth on nothing,,,to do so this universe must be orderly and follow a logic pattern.
    If we start off with a false premise and follow it through logically the conclusion will always be false. That why it is incredably important to reseach out thouroly and make sure our starting point is as accurate as possible

    I always enjoy your posts but it is 2 time consuming for me to debate in depth because of my archaic technical skills.
    But the bottom line is we both are going to heaven and there is nothing on earth that can prevent it.
    If I don't see you here I'll see you there and then I'll have plenty of time to debate

    Pete

  3. #43
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Farmer View Post
    So:

    Is spirtituality a result of emotion?

    Is spirtituality based on religious practice/conduct...orthopraxy? Or is spirituality based on religious belief...orthodoxy?

    Not really sure how the religions you listed are "more spirtitual"...just trying to warp...er wrap..my mind around your ideology Booty.



    .
    I just typed a lengthy reply, hit the submit button and it all disappeared. Did it a second time and same thing. I'll write my reply on Word and copy and paste tonight.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    I just typed a lengthy reply, hit the submit button and it all disappeared. Did it a second time and same thing.
    Oh the drama...

    Booty, it may be Karma man; might want to leave it be.


    .
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

  5. #45
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    I dont care about who believes what I am only concerned in getting an accurate account of the word.
    I too wish to hold fast to an accurate account of the word. As I posted previously Jude urged Christians (not Hindus, Buddhists, etc) to earnestly contend for the faith that was once and for all handed down to the saints. What faith was he alluding to? If not the faith that Jesus Himself orchestrated and then turned over to the apostles under direction of the Holy Spirit (the Comforter or Parakletos who was promised) then what faith?

    Jesus (in an Earthly sense) was crucified for claiming to be God. If He is a liar then what hope do we place our trust in?

    The truth that Jesus is fully God and fully man, the very icon of God the Father on the Earth, is essential to the very foundation of the Christian faith. It may not mean a hill of beans to a Hindu but Christianity hinges its very existence on the fact that Jesus is who He says He is...1 John 2:22 says
    "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?" (NASB)

    Now I did not say that (although I certainly agree with it) John the apostle said that...

    .
    Last edited by Keith Farmer; 05-29-2009 at 03:18 PM.
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

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    I have a question for you Keith that is a little off topic so if you want to PM me instead that's fine. How can there be prophecies and what not but still have Free Will. If someone can know the future than everything is already laid out and I really don't have a choice. Not trying to start another arguement just something i have always sort of struggled with as a Christian. Again PM me if you feel more appropriate.

  7. #47
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    ...what not but still have Free Will.
    This is what spawned the reformation, the great debate between Luther and Erasmus. We do not have free will. Read Luther's 'The Bonadage of the Will' for a scriptural discussion. You can also look up Calvin's five points. TULIP: Total depravity of man, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresitable grace and Perseverence of the saints.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

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    JC never,, no not once claimed to be God,

    He said not my will but my fathers will be done
    He prayed to God all the time
    If he were God why the heck is he praying to himself
    he said he could do nothing without the father.

    We need more investigation don't we.

    My son cannot be me. However is has acess to everthing I own.

    John 1:1 is probably the most legthly expounding one would have to do to unravel . remember starting with the right premise is what is important when getting to the heart of the matter.
    All the rest are 2 minute jobs.

    Pete

  9. #49
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    Pete,

    I respectfully but adamantly disagree with you regarding the subject of Jesus' deity. Although Jesus may have never said the exact words..."I am God"...(although He could have) He certainly set Himself equal with God even referring to Himself as "I Am" which angered the religous leaders so much they tried to stone Him on the spot. Here is the text:

    (John 8:58 NASB)58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

    His assertion in the "great commission": (Matthew 28:18-20 NIV) "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." certainly sets Himself equal with God as part of the Holy Trinity.

    Even deeper is this

    John 14:7-10 NKJV) 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
    8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
    9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? How much more perspicuous can that be?

    Or:

    30"I and the Father are one."

    31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
    32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33 New American Standard Bible) emphasis added.

    Now, for perspicuity's sake let's take a look at a couple of the Ten Commandments (this is a paraphrased version for specific usage here) :

    1) I am the Lord your God...You are to have no other gods but me.

    2) for I, the Lord your God, am a God who will not give his honour to another;

    Without going so deep and eating up pages of proof I will summize by saying that if Jesus said "he who has seen Me has seen the Father" and further declared in the great commission that we are to spread the Gospel baptizing people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit then God has either overlooked Jesus' claims/orders or Jesus was/is in fact who He said He was/is. God certainly has not relented on His Ten Commandments and is now allowing an Earthly human being (although a "good man" and a "prophet" as some claim) to share His honour...that would make God a liar. So then, we are now back to what I stated earlier...Let God be true and every man a liar!

    The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ says: (Rev 17:14 NASB) 14"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

    The commentary that accompanies the text is quoted below (from biblegateway.com)

    The reason of the victory is, that
    he is the King of kings, and Lord of lords. He has supreme dominion and power over all things; all the powers of earth and hell are subject to his control. His followers are called to this warfare, are fitted for it, and will be faithful in it. (Rev 17:15-18)
    God alone is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. If Jesus fits that description as Revelation 17 declares (which I believe to be true) then He indeed is God!

    Finally, the apostles and church elders have held belief in the deity of Jesus for centuries. The church has debated and subsequently debunked the ideology you are promoting as heresy...I am certainly not on equal footing with Luther, Calvin, etc. but I do affirm what they stood for.







    .
    Last edited by Keith Farmer; 05-29-2009 at 06:01 PM.
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

    No evolution, no monkey ancestors, no big bang!

  10. #50
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    JC never,, no not once claimed to be God,

    He said not my will but my fathers will be done
    He prayed to God all the time
    If he were God why the heck is he praying to himself
    he said he could do nothing without the father.

    We need more investigation don't we.

    My son cannot be me. However is has acess to everthing I own.

    John 1:1 is probably the most legthly expounding one would have to do to unravel . remember starting with the right premise is what is important when getting to the heart of the matter.
    All the rest are 2 minute jobs.

    Pete
    Your almost right Pete. The orthodox small o meaning the accepted Christian belief is that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. He did not make over the top claims about himself in large settings he alluded to his deity in ways that the pharisee and Sadducee would understand. It strikes me that when he made the very bold statement " I am" it was in response to Nicodemus a leader among the pharisee during a very discreet encounter. The conversation was about being born again into everlasting life and Jesus explained that to receive this everlasting life it is only necessary to trust and believe in the son of God. Nicodemus asked Jesus "who is this son of God" Jesus responded " I am ..do you believe me?" (except in aramaic) This is consistent throughout the new testament he met people as individuals, he treated the rejects of society with a very soft and loving hand, lifting them above their circumstances. And to those that should have known better, the Hebrew priestly class, he was very harsh. Not because God hated them but, because they should know better.

    "Love one another as I have loved you"

    Never not once did he accost sinners on street with an obnoxious sign attached to him and spew vile poison at them about their lifestyles or lack of belief in him,while quoting scripture from the old testament at them. He was/is quite the contrary.
    Last edited by K.Bullock; 05-29-2009 at 06:36 PM.
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