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Thread: Terrorism: Domestic and Foreign

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    How come all this blather from the left about Tiller, but nnot one word of regret concerning the killing of those 2 young GIs at the recruiting center?
    The MURDERER that killed the one, and wounded the other GIs was arrained in court yesterday I heard on our local news. He pleaded not guilty then proceeded to tell the judge he went there to kill as many American military as he could. Explained his plan and everything. What a punk. Wish he would have gone to the Air Force base in Jacksonville and tried that. He would be with his precious allah and that would have saved us tons of money!

    For the dude that shot the baby killer, he is a murderer. The baby killer doctor, is a murderer. It really does not take alot of sense to figure that out.
    The doctor got his the shooter will get his and the punk GI killer will get his.

    "If you wouldn't have been doing what you shouln't have been doing, you wouldn't be doing what your are doing right now!" My very smart 7TH grade teacher..

    Regards

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    The judge that drove the Aryan Nation into bankruptcy just retired. While I did not agree with those folks, I have an issue with Politically Correct Judicial activiism.

    As for the Oklahoma City bombing, I believe it to have been done in retaliation for the US Government's actions at Waco. All that would have been required would have been cut the welfare to the wacko's many wives & they would have chosen a different lifestyle. But it was done by your side so it's apparently good by you.



    All events have consequences & can be misconstrued to suit one's needs.



    I truly would hope not - the doctor was performing what is legal under the law. That the other person chose not to follow the law would be cause for concern.

    But it wouldn't surprise me also. I was in Tulsa when all the county commissioners around the state were being prosecuted for accepting kickbacks. Did they ever do any time in the slammer?
    I guess your saying that McVeigh was not a terrorist. If he had been a Muslim would have that changed anything?

    By the way those are not my quotes.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    With all the 'concern' for how the killer-of-the-killer will be viewed and dealt with, there isn't a word about the killer and his church. Kansas has to be proud of this crowd.

    About the only article I've seen that actually puts the entire fiasco into context was written by Ann Coulter. I know how she violates the statists sensibilities, TS. It doesn't come close to how my sensibilities are violated on a daily basis by the writings of the socialists on this board.

    UB

    In the wake of the shooting of late-term abortionist George Tiller, President Barack Obama sent out a welcome message that this nation would not tolerate attacks on pro-lifers or any other Americans because of their religion or beliefs.

    Ha ha! Just kidding. That was the lead sentence -- with minor edits -- of a New York Times editorial warning about theoretical hate crimes against Muslims published eight months after 9/11. Can pro-lifers get a hate crimes bill passed and oceans of ink devoted to assuring Americans that "most pro-lifers are peaceful"?


    For years, we've had to hear about the grave threat that Americans might overreact to a terrorist attack committed by 19 Muslims shouting "Allahu akbar" as they flew commercial jets into American skyscrapers. That would be the equivalent of 19 pro-lifers shouting "Abortion kills a beating heart!" as they gunned down thousands of innocent citizens in Wichita, Kan.





    Why aren't liberals rushing to assure us this time that "most pro-lifers are peaceful"? Unlike Muslims, pro-lifers actually are peaceful.

    According to recent polling, a majority of Americans oppose abortion -- which is consistent with liberals' hysterical refusal to allow us to vote on the subject. In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

    In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.

    Meanwhile, fewer than 2 million Muslims live in America and, while Muslims are less murderous than abortionists, I'm fairly certain they've killed more than five people in the United States in the last 36 years. For some reason, the number "3,000" keeps popping into my head.

    So in a country that is more than 50 percent pro-life -- and 80 percent opposed to the late-term abortions of the sort performed by Tiller -- only five abortionists have been killed. And in a country that is less than 0.5 percent Muslim, several dozen Muslims have killed thousands of Americans.

    But the killing of about one abortionist per decade leads liberals to condemn the entire pro-life movement as "domestic terrorists." At least liberals have finally found some terrorists they'd like to send to Guantanamo.

    Tiller bragged about performing 60,000 abortions, including abortions of viable babies, able to survive outside the mother's womb. He made millions of dollars performing late-term abortions so gruesome that only two other abortionists -- not a squeamish bunch -- in the entire country would perform them.

    Kansas law allows late-term abortions only to save the mother's life or to prevent "irreversible physical damage" to the mother. But Tiller was more than happy to kill viable babies, provided the mothers: (1) forked over $5,000; and (2) mentioned "substantial and irreversible conditions," which, in Tiller's view, apparently included not being able to go to concerts or rodeos or being "temporarily depressed" on account of their pregnancies.

    In return for blood money from Tiller's profitable abattoir, Democrats ran a political protection racket for the late-term abortionist.

    In 1997, The Washington Post reported that Tiller attended one of Bill Clinton's White House coffees for major campaign contributors. In addition to a $25,000 donation to Clinton, Tiller wanted to thank him personally for 30 months of U.S. Marshals' protection paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.

    Kansas Democrats who received hundreds of thousands of campaign dollars from Tiller repeatedly intervened to block any interference with Tiller's abortion mill.

    Kathleen Sebelius, who was the governor of Kansas until Obama made her Health and Human Services Secretary, received hundreds of thousands of campaign dollars from Tiller. Sebelius vetoed one bill restricting late-term abortions and another one that would have required Tiller to turn over his records pertaining to "substantial and irreversible conditions" justifying his late-term abortions.

    Kansas Attorney General Paul Morrison also got elected with the help of Tiller's blood money, replacing a Republican attorney general who was in the middle of an investigation of Tiller for various crimes including his failure to report statutory rapes, despite performing abortions on pregnant girls as young as 11.

    But soon after Morrison replaced the Republican attorney general, the charges against Tiller were reduced and, in short order, he was acquitted of a few misdemeanors. In what is a not uncommon cost of doing business with Democrats, Morrison is now gone, having been forced to resign when his mistress charged him with sexual harassment and corruption.

    Tiller was protected not only by a praetorian guard of elected Democrats, but also by the protective coloration of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- coincidentally, the same church belonged to by Tiller's fellow Wichita executioner, the BTK killer.

    The official Web page of the ELCA instructs: "A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born." As long as we're deciding who does and doesn't have an "absolute right to be born," who's to say late-term abortionists have an "absolute right" to live?

    I wouldn't kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn't want to impose my moral values on others. No one is for shooting abortionists. But how will criminalizing men making difficult, often tragic, decisions be an effective means of achieving the goal of reducing the shootings of abortionists?

    Following the moral precepts of liberals, I believe the correct position is: If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, then don't shoot one.
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  4. #24
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Yes, And like others, protected by the First Amendment no matter how idiotic and immoral its message.
    Tell that to Hal Turner


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_211377.html
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  5. #25
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    Never look down on someone unless your helping them up.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Seems like another nut job like the left wing idiots giving out the home address of one of the lawyers that rendered an opinion on torture for the Bush administration. This has traditionally been a tactic of the moronic left.

  7. #27
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    With all the 'concern' for how the killer-of-the-killer will be viewed and dealt with, there isn't a word about the killer and his church. Kansas has to be proud of this crowd.

    About the only article I've seen that actually puts the entire fiasco into context was written by Ann Coulter. I know how she violates the statists sensibilities, TS. It doesn't come close to how my sensibilities are violated on a daily basis by the writings of the socialists on this board.

    UB

    In the wake of the shooting of late-term abortionist George Tiller, President Barack Obama sent out a welcome message that this nation would not tolerate attacks on pro-lifers or any other Americans because of their religion or beliefs.

    Ha ha! Just kidding. That was the lead sentence -- with minor edits -- of a New York Times editorial warning about theoretical hate crimes against Muslims published eight months after 9/11. Can pro-lifers get a hate crimes bill passed and oceans of ink devoted to assuring Americans that "most pro-lifers are peaceful"?


    For years, we've had to hear about the grave threat that Americans might overreact to a terrorist attack committed by 19 Muslims shouting "Allahu akbar" as they flew commercial jets into American skyscrapers. That would be the equivalent of 19 pro-lifers shouting "Abortion kills a beating heart!" as they gunned down thousands of innocent citizens in Wichita, Kan.





    Why aren't liberals rushing to assure us this time that "most pro-lifers are peaceful"? Unlike Muslims, pro-lifers actually are peaceful.

    According to recent polling, a majority of Americans oppose abortion -- which is consistent with liberals' hysterical refusal to allow us to vote on the subject. In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

    In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.

    Meanwhile, fewer than 2 million Muslims live in America and, while Muslims are less murderous than abortionists, I'm fairly certain they've killed more than five people in the United States in the last 36 years. For some reason, the number "3,000" keeps popping into my head.

    So in a country that is more than 50 percent pro-life -- and 80 percent opposed to the late-term abortions of the sort performed by Tiller -- only five abortionists have been killed. And in a country that is less than 0.5 percent Muslim, several dozen Muslims have killed thousands of Americans.

    But the killing of about one abortionist per decade leads liberals to condemn the entire pro-life movement as "domestic terrorists." At least liberals have finally found some terrorists they'd like to send to Guantanamo.

    Tiller bragged about performing 60,000 abortions, including abortions of viable babies, able to survive outside the mother's womb. He made millions of dollars performing late-term abortions so gruesome that only two other abortionists -- not a squeamish bunch -- in the entire country would perform them.

    Kansas law allows late-term abortions only to save the mother's life or to prevent "irreversible physical damage" to the mother. But Tiller was more than happy to kill viable babies, provided the mothers: (1) forked over $5,000; and (2) mentioned "substantial and irreversible conditions," which, in Tiller's view, apparently included not being able to go to concerts or rodeos or being "temporarily depressed" on account of their pregnancies.

    In return for blood money from Tiller's profitable abattoir, Democrats ran a political protection racket for the late-term abortionist.

    In 1997, The Washington Post reported that Tiller attended one of Bill Clinton's White House coffees for major campaign contributors. In addition to a $25,000 donation to Clinton, Tiller wanted to thank him personally for 30 months of U.S. Marshals' protection paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.

    Kansas Democrats who received hundreds of thousands of campaign dollars from Tiller repeatedly intervened to block any interference with Tiller's abortion mill.

    Kathleen Sebelius, who was the governor of Kansas until Obama made her Health and Human Services Secretary, received hundreds of thousands of campaign dollars from Tiller. Sebelius vetoed one bill restricting late-term abortions and another one that would have required Tiller to turn over his records pertaining to "substantial and irreversible conditions" justifying his late-term abortions.

    Kansas Attorney General Paul Morrison also got elected with the help of Tiller's blood money, replacing a Republican attorney general who was in the middle of an investigation of Tiller for various crimes including his failure to report statutory rapes, despite performing abortions on pregnant girls as young as 11.

    But soon after Morrison replaced the Republican attorney general, the charges against Tiller were reduced and, in short order, he was acquitted of a few misdemeanors. In what is a not uncommon cost of doing business with Democrats, Morrison is now gone, having been forced to resign when his mistress charged him with sexual harassment and corruption.

    Tiller was protected not only by a praetorian guard of elected Democrats, but also by the protective coloration of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- coincidentally, the same church belonged to by Tiller's fellow Wichita executioner, the BTK killer.

    The official Web page of the ELCA instructs: "A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born." As long as we're deciding who does and doesn't have an "absolute right to be born," who's to say late-term abortionists have an "absolute right" to live?

    I wouldn't kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn't want to impose my moral values on others. No one is for shooting abortionists. But how will criminalizing men making difficult, often tragic, decisions be an effective means of achieving the goal of reducing the shootings of abortionists?

    Following the moral precepts of liberals, I believe the correct position is: If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, then don't shoot one.
    Coulter always manages to write with firm conviction in part because she never concerns herself with the details of factual accuracy.

    1. "According to recent polling, a majority of Americans oppose abortion -- which is consistent with liberals' hysterical refusal to allow us to vote on the subject." -- Only 23% of Americans, according to the most recent Gallup poll, oppose abortion in all circumstances. 22% believe abortion should be legal in all circumstances. 2% have no opinion. Fortunately, the 53% in the middle tend to be more rational than those at either extreme, believing that abortion should be allowed in many circumstances, but not all. There is an overwhelming consensus that abortion should be legal where there is a significant probability that the baby will have a serious birth defect, or the mother's health is endangered by the pregnancy, or the pregnancy results from rape.

    2. "In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers": It would be fun to see where that number came from. However, if someone asked me a question that said "Are you pro-life?", I too would answer in the affirmative. I am definitely pro-life. I also believe that the government should stay out of reproductive decisions of individuals including decisions about whether or not a woman chooses to carry a pregnancy to term.

    3. "five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade. In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five." - The only good thing about this statement is that she omitted the traditional use of the word "murder" to describe the abortions. There is no comparison possible between those performing a completely legal medical procedure and the terroristic murders, fire bombings, harassment, etc., undertaken by fanatic opponents to prevent them from doing so. Before his death, Tiller operated one of only three remaining clinics in the country available to perform abortions after the 21st week in cases of major birth defects or threats to the mother's life. Before he was finally murdered in his church, Tiller had had numerous other attempts on his life as well as fire bombings and vandalism directed against his clinic.

    I would write more but need to drive to Maryland for a hunt test. Dogs are so much more satisfying than this drivel.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Coulter always manages to write with firm conviction in part because she never concerns herself with the details of factual accuracy.

    1. "According to recent polling, a majority of Americans oppose abortion -- which is consistent with liberals' hysterical refusal to allow us to vote on the subject." -- Only 23% of Americans, according to the most recent Gallup poll, oppose abortion in all circumstances. 22% believe abortion should be legal in all circumstances. 2% have no opinion. Fortunately, the 53% in the middle tend to be more rational than those at either extreme, believing that abortion should be allowed in many circumstances, but not all. There is an overwhelming consensus that abortion should be legal where there is a significant probability that the baby will have a serious birth defect, or the mother's health is endangered by the pregnancy, or the pregnancy results from rape.

    2. "In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers": It would be fun to see where that number came from. However, if someone asked me a question that said "Are you pro-life?", I too would answer in the affirmative. I am definitely pro-life. I also believe that the government should stay out of reproductive decisions of individuals including decisions about whether or not a woman chooses to carry a pregnancy to term.

    Ah yes, the old private decision argument. Slave holders had a very similar argument back in the day. The question that needs to be addressed is whether the act is denying someone their constitutiional rights? To start with the decision needs to me made as to when life begins. Without that answer this argument will never be resolved. With it answered we can then determine when the constitution protects that life. Right now we are trying to have it both ways and that will not work.


    3. "five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade. In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five." - The only good thing about this statement is that she omitted the traditional use of the word "murder" to describe the abortions. There is no comparison possible between those performing a completely legal medical procedure and the terroristic murders, fire bombings, harassment, etc., undertaken by fanatic opponents to prevent them from doing so. Before his death, Tiller operated one of only three remaining clinics in the country available to perform abortions after the 21st week in cases of major birth defects or threats to the mother's life. Before he was finally murdered in his church, Tiller had had numerous other attempts on his life as well as fire bombings and vandalism directed against his clinic.

    Unfortunately those threats included things that are not real life threatening situations. If a mother's life style and mental health were impuned or perceived to be impuned they were able to do an end around on this law. Tiller specialized in getting a second approval from another doc on a matter that was far outside the intent of the helth exception portion of the law.


    I would write more but need to drive to Maryland for a hunt test. Dogs are so much more satisfying than this drivel.


    See bold above.

  9. #29
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontang View Post
    See bold above.
    ...

    Ah yes, the old private decision argument. Slave holders had a very similar argument back in the day. The question that needs to be addressed is whether the act is denying someone their constitutiional rights? To start with the decision needs to me made as to when life begins. Without that answer this argument will never be resolved. With it answered we can then determine when the constitution protects that life. Right now we are trying to have it both ways and that will not work.
    Actually, slaveholders based their claims on rights to property and their assertion that slaves were chattel, not humans. There is, in fact, a parallel between that and the abortion debate since those supporting a right to choose are arguing that fetuses that cannot survive outside of the womb are in fact not protected by our Constitution and laws in the same manner as humans that have been born. There is no precedent in our legal history for treating the unborn as if they had all the rights and protections of the born. Presumably either our laws or our Constitution could be amended to establish such a right. Unless that is done, however, such a claim has no legal standing. This is not the first time or the last where our laws do not conform to the religious beliefs of some with respect to morality. It is not the job of the law to enforce morality. The job of the law is to enforce the law.

    If a law is ever passed that does establish a fetus as a person under the law, the consequences could be interesting. In particular, any pregnant drinking or smoking could reasonably be convicted of child abuse. Presumably, tax exemptions would begin at the moment of conception and census counts would need to be adjusted to count the unborn. Would a pregnant woman riding in the front seat of a car be in violation of child safety laws? What if she were driving? I wouldn't even want to think of what might happen to parents having sex during pregnancy....

    Quote Originally Posted by bmontang View Post
    Unfortunately those threats included things that are not real life threatening situations. If a mother's life style and mental health were impuned or perceived to be impuned they were able to do an end around on this law. Tiller specialized in getting a second approval from another doc on a matter that was far outside the intent of the helth exception portion of the law.


    In an effort to close Tiller's clinic, the anti-choice AG in Kansas filed 19 separate charges against Tiller for subverting the State requirement for a second opinion. Tiller was found not guilty on every single charge. Had Tiller not been assassinated, it is reasonable to assume that the same AG would have continued to seek more ways to close down his operation as he promised to do in his campaign. For what it's worth, the charges filed against Tiller and ultimately rejected in trials were all misdemeanors.

  10. #30
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    I also believe that the government should stay out of reproductive decisions of individuals including decisions about whether or not a woman chooses to carry a pregnancy to term.
    When she made the decision to have sex..she made the decision to reproduce. She made a choice now its time to become responsible for your decisions and not MURDER babies...murder used for dramatic effect only.

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