Boycott Of GM Called

[dnf777]

I agree Rush is a blow hard, but hey, aren't we all in our own way?

Do you listen to him at all?

Does he say anything that mirrors your opinion or position?

Is your hatred, him or his positions?

Is it that you loathe his hypocracy, at least on the drug issue, so much that anything he says must be somehow suspect and not worth any analysis?

Do you think he does a good job pointing out the lefts hypocracy?

Do you think he does a good job pointing out the MSM bias?

Sure, many of his points are in line with mine, but I certainly don't need a talking head to validate my opinions. There are many other less biased (left or right) venues to obtain commentary, done so in a much less vitriolic way.

I try to be fair to people. I have patients in jail for doing the same thing he did, so I can't in any sense of fairness understand why he is on the street, and frankly yes, that taints all he says, in my book.

[subroc]

In what way do you find his presentation vitriolic?

could you site some examples?

[honker88]

So what’s wrong with good wages, a pension, and healthcare? Why do you begrudge them those things?

There isn't a thing wrong with those things, but when they are excessive in comparison to the rest of a specific industry they come with consequences. I'm not trying to begrudge them of those things at all. I am just pointing out that the UAW played a major role in causing this mess. The GM executives also played a major roll because they didn't have enough backbone to stand up against the UAW.

I realize work conditions in the plant have improved, but that’s not reason to devalue their jobs.

I'm not trying to belittle them at all. I am just pointing out that their wages and benefits are out of line with the rest of the manufacturing world. It is not sustainable.

What makes the wages and benefits the UAW negotiated artificially high?

The following two stories will answer that question. When wages are out of line with the rest of the sector they are artificially high. (I can't get the link to work for some reason, you'll have to copy and paste.) http://midwest.chicagofedblogs.org/a...in_automo.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0511290819.asp

There was a time in this country when most manufacturing jobs paid very good wages. However, as manufacturers began to leave this country in favor of cheap labor overseas and in Mexico, pressure was put on the remaining U.S. manufacturing workforce to accept lower wages and benefits that are more in line with what workers are being paid elsewhere in the world.

That's probably true, but that's capitolism. That is what got this great nation to where we are today. If you can't compete, you can't survive. Unfortunately that's true even if the competition is unfair.

I ask again, how do lower wages, and a reduced standard of living benefit us in this country? That is the question you did not address.

I am not making the argument that a reduced standard of living benefits this country. I didn't address it because I am not making that claim. I am just pointing out the UAW played a major role in the demise of the auto industry. You made the claim that the UAW is not the the problem. Based on what I know several factors played major roles, to include the UAW, the executives, the government, potentially unfair trade practices, and not to mention the quality of their products.

Your assumption that the price of a $20k GM car is inflated by 7% is wrong.

It wasn't an assumption, read the articles I posted above.

The price of the car is not going to change because production costs are lower. Pricing on cars it pretty much dictated by what the market will bear.

Above you asked, "What makes the wages and benefits the UAW negotiated artificially high?" You just made one of my points and answered your own question! Wages work the same way as the prices we pay for various things.

Each segment of the car market (small cars, mid-size cars, luxury vehicles, etc.) has a limit customers will pay. That is how manufacturers price their vehicle. If you price it beyond that limit, it will not sell. The only thing higher production costs mean is there is less profit in the car for the manufacturers. If the manufacturer reduces its costs by reducing wages, they are not going to pass that savings on to you, the customer.

You couldn't be any more wrong about passing on cost savings. What you said doesn't make much sense. That is the way capitalism works. Let's say Ford finds a way to produce it's vehicles at a cost that is 10% less than what it currently cost them. You don't think they are going to lower the cost to the customer? They may not pass the entire 10% savings on to the customer, but a chunk of the savings will make it to the customer. Think about it. That lower price will give them a huge competetive advantage. It will force the competition to sharpen their pencils and figure out how they can compete with Ford.

[dnf777]

In what way do you find his presentation vitriolic?

could you site some examples?

Vitriolic: 2(b) virulence of feeling or of speech Webster's Collegiate Dict.

Self-explanatory. If it needs to be pointed out, it wouldn't be understood.
Well, if I must...how about calling John McCain "anti-American"? As a fellow veteran, I was hightly offended that someone who wouldn't know what a military service uniform looked like if it bit him in the butt, could pass such VITRIOLIC judgement on a decorated American hero, with whom he happened to disagree on an issue.

[Hew]

If it needs to be pointed out, it wouldn't be understood.
Well, if I must...how about calling John McCain "anti-American"?

Sorry, but that just doesn't pass the smell test.

[dnf777]

Sorry, but that just doesn't pass the smell test.

I'll try to find a link. I had to chuckle though, seeing an avatar of a baby smoking a cigarette next to a line being unable to pass a smell test! Don't worry, I'm not an anti-smoking nazi....At a dollar a pack, smokers may help keep my taxes from increasing...for the moment.

[Hew]

How's your search progressing, DNF? Lest you think I'm a slacker, I looked as well and couldn't find any mention of Limbaugh calling McCain "anti-American." Should I just go ahead and file that accusation in the "Ummm, yeah. Not so much." file along with your previous claim that Limbaugh forged prescriptions?

[dnf777]

Hew,
I'm inbetween surgeries right now, so I'm not inclined to perform internet searches....you don't remember Rush's prescription drug problems? It may be hard to find the court records, since he ran and hid behind the ACLU for protection of his records. Damn liberals! Hey, at this point, I'll concede anything.....Rush is an honest, outstanding citizen....Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Newt Gingrich, Sen. Stevens, and now Sen. Ensign...are all OUTSTANDING husbands and fathers, who just have "wide stances". Bush was an economic mastermind, who engineered these times of prosperity and job growth that we are all enjoying, as well as paying down our national debt. Do we even still have one?

There, I feel much better now. Now, if Obama doesn't screw it all up for us!

Dave

ps...no, I don't think you're a slacker...file away--I'm going to finish work, and have a nice, cool, homebrew! And you're welcome to join me anytime, I'll keep one cold for ya, b/c I'm sure we agree on more than we disagee. (you do think black labs are smarter than yellows, don't you?)

[road kill]

Hew,
I'm inbetween surgeries right now, so I'm not inclined to perform internet searches....you don't remember Rush's prescription drug problems? It may be hard to find the court records, since he ran and hid behind the ACLU for protection of his records. Damn liberals! Hey, at this point, I'll concede anything.....Rush is an honest, outstanding citizen....Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Newt Gingrich, Sen. Stevens, and now Sen. Ensign...are all OUTSTANDING husbands and fathers, who just have "wide stances". Bush was an economic mastermind, who engineered these times of prosperity and job growth that we are all enjoying, as well as paying down our national debt. Do we even still have one?
There, I feel much better now. Now, if Obama doesn't screw it all up for us!

Dave

ps...no, I don't think you're a slacker...file away--I'm going to finish work, and have a nice, cool, homebrew! And you're welcome to join me anytime, I'll keep one cold for ya, b/c I'm sure we agree on more than we disagee. (you do think black labs are smarter than yellows, don't you?)

Yes, we do, it's been quadrupled in less than 6 months!!

[Hew]

I'm going to finish work, and have a nice, cool, homebrew! And you're welcome to join me anytime, I'll keep one cold for ya, b/c I'm sure we agree on more than we disagee.

I'm sure you're right. I'm guessing nearly all of us would get along famously in person. I'd happily throw back a frosty one with you. Or a glass of chardonnay with Yardley. Or spark a big fat blunt of hippy hemp with Jdogger.