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Thread: Boycott Of GM Called

  1. #21
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Noel View Post
    Mike, you know I am just busting your chops.....

    106K miles and no tie rod problems on my Ford regards,
    I have an F-150 & an Expedition!!

    What's a tie rod??
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by honker88 View Post
    That makes no sense. You say "The UAW is not the problem". The next two sentances you contradict your initial claim. Then try to justify why the problems the UAW contributed to are okay. The UAW was doing part of their job and doing it very well, to the demise the rest of their job. I say that because they were able to negotiate inflated labor rates, full pensions, health care for life, etc. for union members. At the same time they were helping drive GM right into the ground. If the UAW was truely out to do what was best for it's members they would have taken that into account. What good have they done if they cause the company its members work for to go bankrupt? I don't think the UAW was the entire problem, but they certainly played a major role. They have a me, me, me attitude, which finally broke GM.
    What I stated makes perfect sense. You are just missing the point. I stand by what I said. The UAW is not the problem. Sure, there are some flaws that have contributed to added cost, but not substantially when compared to other factors. You can always find some wasteful spending in any large organization. However, unfair trade practices allowed by our government, and mismanagement by GM Executives over the years, have taken a far greater toll on the company than the UAW ever did. You have only to look at the tenures of Roger Smith and Ron Zarella, and the direction they took the company, to see they did more damage to GM than high wages and benefits ever could. Neither one had any business running an auto company.
    I sat in a meeting, and listened to Roger Smith explain how GM used to have 50% of the U.S. auto market, but over the last several years GMís market share had eroded to about 33%. He went on to explain how he expected GM to lose even more market share over the next several years. How could the Board of Directors elect a CEO to run the company that planned to lose in the marketplace? A CEO should have a plan for winning in the marketplace.
    Then came Ron Zarella with his hair brained brand marketing scheme. It was doomed for failure from the beginning, and GM lost more market share. There are more blunders I could cite, but I think you get the idea.

    So whatís wrong with good wages, a pension, and healthcare? Why do you begrudge them those things? I worked one summer in an auto plant. It was what made me go back to school and finish my degree. On the 2nd shift, the area of the plant I worked in would heat up to 100+ degrees. The foreman would come around at the start of the shift, and hand out salt tablets and a roll of paper towels to wipe off sweat. I would use the entire roll by the end of my shift. It was a miserable place to work. Personally, I think they deserved every penny they were paid. I realize work conditions in the plant have improved, but thatís not reason to devalue their jobs.

    Itís funny how we sit around and ooh and aah over the mega salaries paid to professional athletes for playing a childís game. We would all love to be in their position. Yet, we think the guy that goes to work every, and works hard to support his family and give them a good life style, doesnít deserve decent wages.

    Quote Originally Posted by honker88 View Post
    The wages and benefits the UAW negotiated for members is atrificially high. Look around the rest of the manufacturing industry and see how inflated those wages are.
    What makes the wages and benefits the UAW negotiated artificially high? I contend the transplant companiesí wages are artificially low. There was a time in this country when most manufacturing jobs paid very good wages. However, as manufacturers began to leave this country in favor of cheap labor overseas and in Mexico, pressure was put on the remaining U.S. manufacturing workforce to accept lower wages and benefits that are more in line with what workers are being paid elsewhere in the world.

    Again, look where the foreign owned manufacturers established plants. They built them in states that traditionally paid workers low wages. They are the some of the same states people left during the great industrial migration for better paying manufacturing jobs in the north. The lower wages and benefits paid by the transplants has resulted increased downward pressure on wages for other U.S. workers, and the outsourcing of jobs to other countries. I ask again, how do lower wages, and a reduced standard of living benefit us in this country? That is the question you did not address.

    Quote Originally Posted by honker88 View Post
    I read somewhere the other day that every GM bought has the price inflated by an extra $1400 to cover the costs of pensions and health care benefits compare to its foreign owned competitors in the US. That means a GM vehicle that cost $20,000 is inflated by 7% over the competition. That is pretty significant. How could GM and the UAW expect to compete with that?
    Your assumption that the price of a $20k GM car is inflated by 7% is wrong. The price of the car is not going to change because production costs are lower. Pricing on cars it pretty much dictated by what the market will bear. Each segment of the car market (small cars, mid-size cars, luxury vehicles, etc.) has a limit customers will pay. That is how manufacturers price their vehicle. If you price it beyond that limit, it will not sell. The only thing higher production costs mean is there is less profit in the car for the manufacturers. If the manufacturer reduces its costs by reducing wages, they are not going to pass that savings on to you, the customer.

  3. #23
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Last ford I had was assembled in Canada. I just bought a GMC 2500. Why should I take the advice of a morbidly obese drug addict? (referring to Limbaugh...and that's not name calling, just factual description)
    Last edited by dnf777; 06-12-2009 at 07:57 PM. Reason: clarification
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Last ford I had was assembled in Canada. I just bought a GMC 2500. Why should I take the advice of a morbidly obese drug addict? (referring to Limbaugh...and that's not name calling, just factual description)

    Obama smoked pot, did cocaine and is addicted to Nicotine, why would you listen to him either? Or are all those things OK if you're skinny?

  5. #25
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    You're right. So I assume you voted for Al Gore and John Kerry, since George W Bush did all those things as well. And who said I was listening to Obama? I just don't let Rush Limbaugh dictate my thought process or behavior. (I'm not saying anyone else does either, before I get jumped on.....just seems lots of Rushisms are echoed here) I love political debate, but I can watch and listen to the talking heads myself.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    You're right. So I assume you voted for Al Gore and John Kerry, since George W Bush did all those things as well. And who said I was listening to Obama? I just don't let Rush Limbaugh dictate my thought process or behavior. (I'm not saying anyone else does either, before I get jumped on.....just seems lots of Rushisms are echoed here) I love political debate, but I can watch and listen to the talking heads myself.
    No actually I never gave those qualifiers, you did. If your qualifier is you don't take any information from anyone who has had an addiction problem or is overweight you might be a little short on reading material.

  7. #27
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    So why "save" GM and not Chrysler?
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.

  8. #28
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    No actually I never gave those qualifiers, you did. If your qualifier is you don't take any information from anyone who has had an addiction problem or is overweight you might be a little short on reading material.
    All I said was "drug addict". Nobody, including Rush disputes that. You in fact gave the other qualifiers. And no, I don't take serious advice from drug addicts. (we could debate that term as well, ie coffee drinkers, chocoholics...but I'm referring to narcotic abusers who illegally obtain them)

    And I don't discriminate against morbidly obese people. But in his case its part of a constellation of conditions that all point to an inability to control one's desires. FYI, morbid obesity and overweight are not the same. One is a social judgement, the other is a medical condition.

    Again, I'm not an Obama supporter, or even a democrat for that matter, but I just can't stand hypocrisy!!!!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #29
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    I agree Rush is a blow hard, but hey, aren't we all in our own way?

    Do you listen to him at all?

    Does he say anything that mirrors your opinion or position?

    Is your hatred, him or his positions?

    Is it that you loathe his hypocracy, at least on the drug issue, so much that anything he says must be somehow suspect and not worth any analysis?

    Do you think he does a good job pointing out the lefts hypocracy?

    Do you think he does a good job pointing out the MSM bias?
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjrice View Post
    So why "save" GM and not Chrysler?
    I am not sure. It seemed Gov. rhetoric from the beginning favored GM over Chrysler being able to survive. However, the Gov. did put in some money to sweeten the deal for Chrysler bond holders at the 11th hour to try to stave off bankruptcy, but some bond holders refused go for the deal.

    I would like to see Chrysler come out of this okay. However, Iím a little skeptical of the deal with Fiat. Chrysler is still dealing with some quality issues or their own, and Fiat is well known for quality problems. Fiat was rated ďbelow averageĒ in quality and reliability in Europe, finishing 20th of 25 brands in J.D. Power's Customer Satisfaction Index Study in Germany, France and the UK. Other than the infusion of cash, I just donít see how Fiat is going to help Chrysler make it.

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