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Thread: Fossil discovery...

  1. #261
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing from some here is that Salvation has little to do with whether one knows right from wrong and acts accordingly. This is consistent with what I've heard from a variety of Christian individuals and denominations over the years.

    So, when someone says "You're not Saved" (and therefore quite likely going to hell, in their opinion), they are not necessarily saying "I think you're a bad person."

    Just seeking clarification.
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  2. #262
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    It works both ways.
    Ananias and sappira were born again and then flipped out,,,, Paul had christians killed and imprisoned and he turned out to get the most revalation to write.

    salvation has nothing to do with good or bad . Once you become a son of God then your stuck with him as your father. The more you do for him the more your rewarded.

    If your gonna be an asshole your gonna be surprised when it comes time to read the will.
    However your still his son.
    My son will always be my son even if he blows up the world. I gaurentee you I will not reward or talk with him if he does that. But he still has my seed in him and he is still my son.

    When God says "son" thats what he means when he says father " thats what he means. Words meant something at one time. He chose to make analagies that we could understand.


    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 07-04-2009 at 02:59 PM.

  3. #263
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing from some here is that Salvation has little to do with whether one knows right from wrong and acts accordingly. This is consistent with what I've heard from a variety of Christian individuals and denominations over the years.

    So, when someone says "You're not Saved" (and therefore quite likely going to hell, in their opinion), they are not necessarily saying "I think you're a bad person."

    Just seeking clarification.
    Wow this thread is taking some strange turns. When someone says "your not saved" they are misleading themselves and whomever they are speaking to. They cannot know what someone else spiritual condition is unless they are omniscient which in orthodox Christianity only God is omniscient(all knowing) so they are already off track.


    Christians believe that in order to be saved you must believe and confess that Jesus is the son of God fully human yet fully divine and know that he died for your sins. That is technically a working definition of coming to faith. and is a very simplistic ,there is much more to it than that.

    In protestant Christianity it is generally accepted to be orthodox that we are saved not by any thing that we can say or do. Christians believe they are saved because God came in the form of his son Jesus to settle a debt created by Adams original sin to restore us back into the family. So no according to that you are not bad enough to make God reject you, and you cannot be good enough or do enough good things to save yourself. So salvation is solely the work of God.

    Protestant denominations differ as to how that work comes about, but essentially it comes down to semantics and is not that big of a deal.

    Does that mean that you are saved and thats it, you can go about your business now and act anyway you want?
    The simplistic answer again is no, it is believed that you are born again of spirit and not flesh and out of that comes a desire to please God and learn his ways. That does not mean you become superhuman and never sin again or do not have bad days. It only means that you desire not to do things that dishonor God or hamper your relationship with Him. Scripture says that "they will know us by our love for one another".

    Whether you are saved or not is solely the business of you and your creator when Peter asked about the fate of John Jesus told him "don't you worry about him you follow me".
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  4. #264
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    I guess I have a correction--don't know that I've ever heard someone actually SAY "You are not saved," but rather it's by implication--"This is how one is saved..." and the rest is all implication if you don't fit the formula.

    All very interesting. And in my mind related to the fossil record, actually. Thanks for the replies.
    --Greta Ode
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    Kerrybrooks Magical Atticus MH
    Coastalight Kiowa Ravenhawk MH

  5. #265
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=cotts135;467431]I am quite capable on my own on figuring what is right or wrong without it being force fed to me everywhere I go.





    Quote Originally Posted by kimsmith View Post
    Here is the problem that I see. The Muslims believe just as strongly about their religion as you do of yours. Many wars have been fought over a real or perceived belief that a religion is better than someones else's. Obviously both can not be right. This contradiction alone, at least to me, makes it hard to believe anyone's claim of religious superiority
    Well said.

    Its interesting. Both the Koran and the Old Testament speak of stoning women to death who falsely claim virginity at marriage. Moderates of both religions obviously don't adhere to these words, inspired by their respective Gods. I wonder how one chooses which are "good" inspired words to be followed, and which ones to sort of ignore and dismiss. And how do we Christians reconcile stoning women to death with "Thou shalt not kill"?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #266
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=dnf777;467560]
    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    And how do we Christians reconcile stoning women to death with "Thou shalt not kill"?
    "We" don't ...that's nuts. If you seriously think Christians liberal moderate or fundamentalist condone or believe in stoning women you are badly misinformed.
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  7. #267
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    [QUOTE=dnf777;467560]
    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    I am quite capable on my own on figuring what is right or wrong without it being force fed to me everywhere I go.







    Well said.

    Its interesting. Both the Koran and the Old Testament speak of stoning women to death who falsely claim virginity at marriage. Moderates of both religions obviously don't adhere to these words, inspired by their respective Gods. I wonder how one chooses which are "good" inspired words to be followed, and which ones to sort of ignore and dismiss. And how do we Christians reconcile stoning women to death with "Thou shalt not kill"?
    Didn't we christians basically ditch the old testament?

  8. #268
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=eildydar;467571]
    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post

    Didn't we christians basically ditch the old testament?
    I don't know. That would be convenient, wouldn't it? If people truly believe what they write on this list, and it's the inspired word of God, and is TRUE, then its pretty risque to "ditch it", isn't it?

    As for believing Christians carry out acts described in the old Testament, of course not! But there are sects that do. Branch Davidians, the recent cult in Texas, the doctor shot in the head. I'm sure you'll discount them all as wackos, as do I, but they didn't claim that martians told them to do the things they did.

    How to decide what to "ditch"? I ditch stoning people, most of what was said about how to treat women, and also creation and other explanations that were unknown to contemorary writers of the Bible, that science has since shed light on.

    Shouldn't we "ditch" creation and Noah's ark just like stoning women? That still leaves intact the basic teaching of religion. Nothing ever discovered will undo the Golden Rule. But some of the other stuff......let's "ditch" that too.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #269
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    [quote=eildydar;467571]
    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post

    Didn't we christians basically ditch the old testament?
    HUNH!!!
    REALLY?

  10. #270
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    Didn't we christians basically ditch the old testament
    Well yes and no.
    After JC fullfilled the law ,,,we were no longer bound by it. romans 15 ;4 says that thing written afore time are for our learning" speaking of the old law adminstration. The old testimate holds many keys to understand a vast array of subject.
    But we are no longer saved by works but by grace.

    In that culture they had Laws and not all of them were set up by God.
    Stoning woman was cultural.
    The word kill is the word murder.
    People were still punished for their crimes and bound by God given laws and natural laws set up by men who most of the time did not follow the laws that God gave to them..

    If you read the word much you will see that Isreal spent alot of time in left field.
    Much of the bible shows man and the error of his ways.
    By the way. Men actually wanted a king and a law to live by. So God gave them a bunch of laws. It wasn't Gods intent for man to live in bondage.

    men and there wild imaginations on how to worship the one true God has been mans problem since it beggining.

    God initially gave to Adam only one thing he coulnt do.He could partake in anything except eat of the tree of good and evil And I guess the nature of man is to do those things he is not allowed to do.

    Pete

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