The Climate Change Climate Change

[Gerry Clinchy]

Buying Carbon Credits makes as much sense as a fat guy buying extra Weight Watcher points.

....Don

Where do I get those Weight Watcher points?

Regarding the gasoline scenario put forth ... I believe that we are closer to using alternate fuels for industrial/commercial uses and even residential heating/electrical usage than we are to having a mass marketable alternative to the gasoline engine.

Seems we should do what we can do cost-effectively (industrial, commercial, residential) as soon as possible, giving us some time to come up with a decent alternative to the gasoline engine.

If we are going to drive less (due to increased cost of gas), then we need those other alternative energy sources to provide other means of transportation, i.e. electricity powers urban rail service, for example. We'll need to make that electricity a viable economic alternative. Otherwise, we all better be prepared to spend more time not traveling anywhere.

If it seems inevitable that the cost of all kinds of energy will increase, then we better be finding some ways to generate the wealth that will fund those increased costs of living.

[tpaschal30]

Where do I get those Weight Watcher points?

Regarding the gasoline scenario put forth ... I believe that we are closer to using alternate fuels for industrial/commercial uses and even residential heating/electrical usage than we are to having a mass marketable alternative to the gasoline engine.

Seems we should do what we can do cost-effectively (industrial, commercial, residential) as soon as possible, giving us some time to come up with a decent alternative to the gasoline engine.

If we are going to drive less (due to increased cost of gas), then we need those other alternative energy sources to provide other means of transportation, i.e. electricity powers urban rail service, for example. We'll need to make that electricity a viable economic alternative. Otherwise, we all better be prepared to spend more time not traveling anywhere.

If it seems inevitable that the cost of all kinds of energy will increase, then we better be finding some ways to generate the wealth that will fund those increased costs of living.

The market will provide.

[Bruce MacPherson]

In the most recent report on climate change from the xxx, the primary conclusion is:

"1. Global warming is unequivocal and primarily human-induced. Global temperature has increased over the past 50 years. This observed increase is due primarily to human-induced emissions of heat-trapping gases. (p. 13)"

The most recent report is available at http://www.globalchange.gov. It was released June 16, 2009 and provides a rather thorough summary of both the evidence supporting the existence of global warming that is primarily human induced and a detailed assessment of the impacts expected in the US. While I tend to be a fairly voracious reader and a skeptic about almost everything, I cannot independently evaluate all of the evidence on global climate change. However, my BS alarms go off in full force when I read the challenges to the science generated with great regularity.

As has been demonstrated in prior threads, this forum does little to promote scientific discussion in the face of ideological and religious commitments. Personally, I tend to believe that the burden of proof of safety rests with those engaging in activities that significantly change our environment, not with those seeking to minimize those impacts. It is clear that human activity is dramatically changing aspects of our atmosphere. Show me the proof that those changes have no negative consequences.

Sure man made activity can have an impact so can natural occurrences to numerous to mention. This is more about money for a few than actual science so wake up and smell the coffee. More countries are buying out of this madness than are buying in and most of them are more than happy to see the U.S. blythely skipping down this path to less productivity and second rate status.

[YardleyLabs]

Sure man made activity can have an impact so can natural occurrences to numerous to mention. This is more about money for a few than actual science so wake up and smell the coffee. More countries are buying out of this madness than are buying in and most of them are more than happy to see the U.S. blythely skipping down this path to less productivity and second rate status.

I agree it's about money. It's about the profits of coal-burning utilities that were purchased by speculators after they had been ordered to clean up their emissions or close. Instead they lobbied successfully for variances allowing them to continue poisoning the air over eastern cities long after they were supposed to have shut down. It's about the profits of the petroleum industry which wants to ensure that no alternative technologies are developed unless they are in control. Both have spent fortunes to subsidize "scientific" research to sow confusion much as the Tobacco Industry did with the Tobacco Institute. It's also about a Republican Party that has sold its soul to these industries in its efforts to raise funds.

As to other countries:

• Show me another country that has as large a carbon footprint per person as the the United States.
• Show me a mature developed country that has not already done more to reduce its carbon footprint than the United States.

I'm awake and I smell the coffee. Do you?

[Hew]

It's also about a Republican Party that has sold its soul to these industries in its efforts to raise funds.

It's instructive to note that if the GOP has "sold its soul," it is to industries that produce jobs, fuel the economy of the country and provide for a standard of living unmatched nearly anywhere else in the world. In contrast, the Democrats have sold their souls to labor unions and ambulance chasing trial attorneys...groups that parasitically wrench their livelihood out of somebody else's wallet. Who do you have to thank for the electricity that powered your computer to type your last post, the local coal-fired electrical utility or the AFL-CIO?

[YardleyLabs]

It's instructive to note that if the GOP has "sold its soul," it is to industries that produce jobs, fuel the economy of the country and provide for a standard of living unmatched nearly anywhere else in the world. In contrast, the Democrats have sold their souls to labor unions and ambulance chasing trial attorneys...groups that parasitically wrench their livelihood out of somebody else's wallet. Who do you have to thank for the electricity that powered your computer to type your last post, the local coal-fired electrical utility or the AFL-CIO?

Actually, the bulk of my electricity comes from the nuclear facility at three mile island. My asthma probably owes a lot of its episodes to the coal fired plants in Ohio.

[subroc]

It's instructive to note that if the GOP has "sold its soul," it is to industries that produce jobs, fuel the economy of the country and provide for a standard of living unmatched nearly anywhere else in the world. In contrast, the Democrats have sold their souls to labor unions and ambulance chasing trial attorneys...groups that parasitically wrench their livelihood out of somebody else's wallet. Who do you have to thank for the electricity that powered your computer to type your last post, the local coal-fired electrical utility or the AFL-CIO?

great post...

[subroc]

Actually, the bulk of my electricity comes from the nuclear facility at three mile island. My asthma probably owes a lot of its episodes to the coal fired plants in Ohio.

I believe democrats loathe nuclear power as well.

[YardleyLabs]

I believe democrats loathe nuclear power as well.

I grew up in Oak Ridge TN where all the original residents still glow in the dark.

[If you don't know. that is where the plutonium for our atomic bombs was refined.]

[Julie R.]

If it seems inevitable that the cost of all kinds of energy will increase, then we better be finding some ways to generate the wealth that will fund those increased costs of living.

Obongo has already done that, he's generating wealth by having tons of money printed so he can give out more to the non working have-nots. The voters that would normally be most hurt by the increased costs of living due to higher energy costs aren't the slightest bit worried because you and I will be subsidizing them. And don't forget they also have Hugo Chavez and Joe Kennedy to keep their furnaces running.