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Thread: Honduras boots wanne be leftist dictator.

  1. #11
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Anyone surprised that Obama is siding with his buddies Chavez and Castro?

    The military was acting to protect thier constitution and directed by thier government against a power grab by thier President.

    Could be a precursor to Obama doing away with term limits here.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    At some point, if we are going to support democracy in other countries, we must voice our support for democratically elected governments against the power of a military coup. The issue of opposing coups d'etats by the military or others to overthrow elected governments has nothing to do with whether or not we support the individual policies of those elected governments. The coup in Honduras has been opposed by the EU and by most democratic countries.

    How is it that you are always on the wrong side of justice??? The 'coup' is exactly what this nation is going to need to get rid of the leadership folks like you continue to foist on America.

    UB



    (From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL)
    By Mary Anastasia O'Grady
    Hugo Chavez's coalition-building efforts suffered a setback yesterday when the
    Honduran military sent its president packing for abusing the nation's
    constitution.
    It seems that President Mel Zelaya miscalculated when he tried to emulate the
    success of his good friend Hugo in reshaping the Honduran Constitution to his
    liking.
    But Honduras is not out of the Venezuelan woods yet. Yesterday the Central
    American country was being pressured to restore the authoritarian Mr. Zelaya by
    the likes of Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, Hillary Clinton and, of course, Hugo
    himself. The Organization of American States, having ignored Mr. Zelaya's
    abuses, also wants him back in power. It will be a miracle if Honduran patriots
    can hold their ground.
    That Mr. Zelaya acted as if he were above the law, there is no doubt. While
    Honduran law allows for a constitutional rewrite, the power to open that door
    does not lie with the president. A constituent assembly can only be called
    through a national referendum approved by its Congress.
    But Mr. Zelaya declared the vote on his own and had Mr. Chavez ship him the
    necessary ballots from Venezuela . The Supreme Court ruled his referendum
    unconstitutional, and it instructed the military not to carry out the logistics
    of the vote as it normally would do.
    The top military commander, Gen. Romeo Vasquez Velasquez, told the president
    that he would have to comply. Mr. Zelaya promptly fired him. The Supreme Court
    ordered him reinstated. Mr. Zelaya refused.
    Calculating that some critical mass of Hondurans would take his side, the
    president decided he would run the referendum himself. So on Thursday he led a
    mob that broke into the military installation where the ballots from Venezuela
    were being stored and then had his supporters distribute them in defiance of
    the Supreme Court's order.

    It remains to be seen what Mr. Zelaya's next move will be. It's not surprising
    that chavistas throughout the region are claiming that he was victim of a
    military coup. They want to hide the fact that the military was acting on a
    court order to defend the rule of law and the constitution, and that the
    Congress asserted itself for that purpose, too.
    Mrs. Clinton has piled on as well. Yesterday she accused Honduras of violating
    "the precepts of the Interamerican Democratic Charter" and said it "should be
    condemned by all." Fidel Castro did just that. Mr. Chavez pledged to overthrow
    the new government.
    Honduras is fighting back by strictly following the constitution. The Honduran
    Congress met in emergency session yesterday and designated its president as the
    interim executive as stipulated in Honduran law. It also said that presidential
    elections set for November will go forward. The Supreme Court later said that
    the military acted on its orders. It also said that when Mr. Zelaya realized
    that he was going to be prosecuted for his illegal behavior, he agreed to an
    offer to resign in exchange for safe passage out of the country. Mr. Zelaya
    denies it.
    Many Hondurans are going to be celebrating Mr. Zelaya's foreign excursion.
    Street protests against his heavy-handed tactics had already begun last week.
    On Friday a large number of military reservists took their turn. "We won't go
    backwards," one sign said. "We want to live in peace, freedom and development."

    For Hondurans who still remember military dictatorship, Mr. Zelaya also has
    another strike against him: He keeps rotten company. Earlier this month he
    hosted an OAS general assembly and led the effort, along side OAS Secretary
    General Jose Miguel Insulza, to bring Cuba back into the supposedly democratic
    organization.

    The struggle against chavismo has never been about left-right politics. It is
    about defending the independence of institutions that keep presidents from
    becoming dictators. This crisis clearly delineates the problem. In failing to
    come to the aid of checks and balances, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Insulza exposetheir true colors.
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    America needs to keep leftist dictators from assuming power in the hemisphere if possible. We should have done something about keeping Chavez out of office, he will be a thorn in our side as long as he is in office. The longer the currant occupant continues to be in the White House, the more America will see what damage leftists can do in a free country.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
    ROLL TIDE!

  4. #14

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    Despite our media and our government stating the opposite, this was not a "Military Coup" the military has not and is not in charge.

    The president was attempting to change the constitution illegally. He was voted out by even his own party. He refused to leave and the Honduran supreme court ordered his removal and his replacement with a member of his own party.

    It would be like Nixon being impeached and refusing to leave office. He would have been removed forcibly and replaced with his Vice president

    It's funny how Obama would not support the people of Iran when obviously there was a chance for liberty (he stated he did not want to interfere with the internal politics of another country) but he sure will speak out against a government removing its president (want to be dictator) legally.

  5. #15
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    To put this in perspective....

    Suppose the US President decides to hold a referendum to make himself "President for Life". The Supreme Ct rules against him.....

    It's not an illegal move against the President of Honduras. Instead the President's unconstitutional actions have brought this on by the order of the Honduran Supreme Court.

    ...and Obama and Hilary are supporting Zelaya? Tsk, tsk.


    OBAMA MORE THAN 'CONCERNED'
    By Neal Boortz @ June 30, 2009 8:11 AM

    North Korea launches a missile and it takes Barack Obama and the UN five days to respond. Iran holds fraudulent elections, kills protesters and it takes weeks before Barack Obama can stand up and say that he is "concerned" about the situation.

    Then the people of Honduras try to uphold their constitution and laws of the land from being trampled by a Chavez-wanna be ... and it takes Barack Obama one day to proclaim that this was not a legal coup.

    Why the sudden decisiveness? Where were these strong opinions on foreign matters when Iranian authorities were trampling protestors and cutting off media access to the outside world? Where was this decisiveness when Kim Jong Ill decided that he was going to launch missiles toward Hawaii on the Fourth of July? Why ... NOW ... is Obama suddenly speaking out loudly

    How about a little background. Are you really sure you know what has been going on in Honduras? Do you think that this was simply a coup? Let me give you a rough outline here, and then you can sit back and wonder just why PrezBO is in the weeds with Chavez and Castro on this one.

    Mel Zelaya is, or was, the President of Honduras. He and Hugo Chaves were tight. So tight, it seems, that Zelaya wanted to emulate Hugo by changing the Honduran constitution to allow him to run for office until he durned well gets tired of it.

    To change the constitution in Honduras you have to convene a constituent assembly. The president cannot do that. The Honduran congress must approve a national referendum calling for the constituent assembly to consider changes to the constitution. Zelaya didn't like the part about the constitution requiring approval of the congress before a national referendum could be called. So ... he decided to call one on his own.

    OK .. so here we have President Zelaya calling for a national referendum when he doesn't have the power to do so. The next problem is obtaining ballots! Since the Honduran congress had not called for the referendum, as required by the constitution, the government certainly wasn't going to print the ballots! After all, how smart would it be to print ballots for an illegal referendum? So ... Zelaya had to get the ballots printed elsewhere. Here's an idea! Get his pall Hugo Chavez to print them! Yes! That will work!

    So Chaves prints Zelaya's ballots and they're shipped to Honduras. Enter the Honduran Supreme Court. The court considers Zelaya's election in light of the requirements of the Honduran constitution, and rules the referendum illegal and unconstitutional. The court then issues an order to the Honduran military telling them not to do the logistical work associated with Zelaya's phony referendum. Remember, now ... all of this has one primary goal. To get rid of the term limits limiting Zelaya's rule in Honduras.

    After the supreme court's decision, General Romeo Velasquez tells President Zelaya that he is subject to a proper order from the Supreme Court and will not be able to carry out Zelaya's referendum. So ... Zelaya fires him. The Supreme Court orders Zelaya to reinstate Velasquez, and Zelaya refuses to do so.

    At this point Zelaya's ego is getting the better of him. If the military won't run his illegal referendum, he'll just do it himself. He gins up a mob and leads them to the military compound where Hugo's ballots are stored and then has his supporters begin distributing the ballots to the masses.

    Based on the Supreme Court's ruling the Honduran attorney general said that the proposed referendum was illegal and said that he would arrest anyone attempting to carry out the election. Zelaya was arrested by the military and was escorted out of the country.

    Now ... does this sound like a military coup-de-etat to you? The attorney general and the military were operating in accordance with the Honduran rule of law. They acted under a valid court order. Coup? The Honduran congress has convened and designated a successor president, all in accordance with the Honduran Constitution. Military coup? The presidential elections set for November .. the election that Zelaya was trying to get around ... will go on as scheduled. A blow for democracy?

    Fidel Castro, Daniel Noriega, Hugo Chavez ... all on the side of Zelaya. But Obama? Obama fighting against the rule of law and for a wannabe dictator? What gives?

  6. #16
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    If you want to put it in perspective, a better analogy would be that the President of the united States seeks a national, non-binding referendum on whether or not the people would like to see an amendment to the constitution eliminating term limits for the President. Congress and the Courts rule the the President has no authority to conduct such a referendum but the President asks that sch a question be placed in the Census questionnaire anyway and proceeds to distribute these. The Joint Chiefs of Staff organize a military unit to enter the White House at night, remove the President from his bed, place him in an airplane, ship him off to another country, and announce that the Speaker of the House is now President.

    In this country, we would call that insurrection and treason despite the illegal actions by the President.

    {Just for argument's sake, assume that the President is GWB and the Speaker is Nancy Pelosi]

  7. #17
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    If you want to put it in perspective, a better analogy would be that the President of the united States seeks a national, non-binding referendum on whether or not the people would like to see an amendment to the constitution eliminating term limits for the President. Congress and the Courts rule the the President has no authority to conduct such a referendum but the President asks that sch a question be placed in the Census questionnaire anyway and proceeds to distribute these. The Joint Chiefs of Staff organize a military unit to enter the White House at night, remove the President from his bed, place him in an airplane, ship him off to another country, and announce that the Speaker of the House is now President.

    In this country, we would call that insurrection and treason despite the illegal actions by the President.

    {Just for argument's sake, assume that the President is GWB and the Speaker is Nancy Pelosi]
    With Obama incharge of the 2010 Census, you know working America will be in even bigger trouble.

    Your hyperthetical is not possible. But, in some derranged world, I would have to support Mrs. P.
    I couldn't come to terms with spelling out her name.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  8. #18
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    No Jeff. You have missed some salient facts.

    1. The referendum would be unofficial since there is no basis in law for this. Further, why do it at all? It could have no impact on the governance of the country. The people elect the "Congress" and the "Congress" has to act to modify the constitution. The "Congress" didn't take action as is their cchoice under the law. If the people didn't like that, the people would have a chance at the next election to voice their opinion.

    2. The Supreme Ct. would have ordered the military to intercede on the country's behalf.

    3. The President would have fired the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

    4. The Supreme Ct. would have ordered the general's re-instatement and the President would have unlawfully refused.

    5. The Attorney General would have requested the military to act since the President was acting outside the law.

    It's neither an insurrection nor treason. The military leaders are following the orders of the Supreme Ct. That can't be treason by definition.

    Basically, every actor in the Honduran situation has acted within their law...except for President Zeyala. He's a tinpot dictator and the foreign policy makers of this country should be ashamed of themselves for supporting him.

    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Johnson; 06-30-2009 at 01:43 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Goose's Avatar
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    So our Dear Leader (with his pals Castro and Chavez) supports a tinpot, fascist dictator. Birds of a feather...

    We live in Cuba now.

  10. #20
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    No Jeff. You have missed some salient facts.

    1. The referendum would be unofficial since there is no basis in law for this. Further, why do it at all? It could have no impact on the governance of the country. The people elect the "Congress" and the "Congress" has to act to modify the constitution. The "Congress" didn't take action as is their cchoice under the law. If the people didn't like that, the people would have a chance at the next election to voice their opinion.

    2. The Supreme Ct. would have ordered the military to intercede on the country's behalf.

    3. The President would have fired the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

    4. The Supreme Ct. would have ordered the general's re-instatement and the President would have unlawfully refused.

    5. The Attorney General would have requested the military to act since the President was acting outside the law.

    It's neither an insurrection nor treason. The military leaders are following the orders of the Supreme Ct. That can't be treason by definition.

    Basically, every actor in the Honduran situation has acted within their law...except for President Zeyala. He's a tinpot dictator and the foreign policy makers of this country should be ashamed of themselves for supporting him.

    Eric
    I think your spot on. It is a no-brainer that one less Chavez in South America is good for all free people in this hemisphere. What concerns me in this situation is how our new government is spinning it.

    China says nothing about other governments abusing their people because they do and the intend to keep doing it. Is the U.S. under Obama heading in that direction?
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

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