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Thread: Help me understand

  1. #21
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    I also voted and campaigned for a Senator that admitted having an affair : Ensign, R (NV) was very disappointed in him, dont know if I could vote for him again, and he is a veterinarian to boot

    the other reason I voted McCain/ Palin is that I refused to be told by my work union (Culinary # 226) who to support and vote for, they were so two faced, they originally backed Clinton in the primary but switched their allegiance when BHO took the lead in the polls
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  2. #22
    Senior Member TexGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    all of those things are being left to the state. Abortion was voted on and failed miserably. Same sex marriage was voted on in california and they ammended the constitution of the state that it wasn't legal. Thats of course, after the supreme court decided it could try and make laws from the bench. Stem cell research like you said was decided by the feds in the stroke of a pen.
    For now they are with the state, but that is not the Republican agenda-- you have heard the calls for amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

    The federal government has trampled over the educational system. No Child Left Behind controls virtually everything in schools now, with the feds saying, "You don't have to do this, but if you don't we will take away your federal funds." NCLB was almost all Bush-- remember he was going to be the "Education President." All that wasted money and bureaucracy from a law that was unworkable and stupidly flawed from the git-go.

    I haven't turned on the party because of the economy, it is the change in emphasis and priority that bothers me. Hopefully, a break will appear and it will make sense to become involved again and perhaps bring the original values back to the party.
    "When a man is proud of his dog and shows it, I like him. When his dog is proud of him and shows it, I deeply respect him. Gene Hill

  3. #23
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    A few more random points:

    It seems to me that the Republican party is extraordinarily divided on what "right" (in every sense of the word) means. Socially? Fiscally? States rights? "Traditional" values? Religious viewpoints? The right of 25 years ago? 40? 100? 150 years ago? Conservative how? Constitutional conservative? Cultural conservative? You all are a freakin' mess when it comes to defining yourselves. How does one vote for that mess???

    Obama had the distinct advantage of just saying, "They're wrong," which was the only thing that made any sense, no matter how horridly simplistic (and in-credible) it was.

    The betrayal of MY vote is that Obama now seems to be saying, "Well, now that I'm here, I'll build on what the other guys were doing anyway" (and nobody's really taking him to task on this, which is a travesty).

    Examples: Bailouts? Bail out more. Bolster failing business? Bolster more. Blur the line between business and government? (Arguably, "right" as in fascist, could be argued "left" as well, I understand) Blur more. Business decisions interfering with health care? Just you watch--health insurers will make megabucks with Obama's final compromise plan with them (wish I had money to invest), and there will be a lot of Republican congressmen voting for it or abstaining or cynically voting against it with their fingers crossed behind their backs, praying it will pass. Stretched thin in ill-defined wars? Stretch more, seek to obfuscate the rationales more. Possible torture? Illegal imprisonment? Move the venues, rail against the questionable practices all the while continuing them, hide the old evidence and deny the new. Manipulating and co-opting the media? Manipulate more, co-opt more.

    The Republican administration was wrong--I couldn't affirm them, no way and no how--and now, unfortunately, a Democratic administration is MORE wrong.

    I did my best, as I hope everyone else who voted did. 2012 will come, and I'll do my best again. Blame me if you want, but I just couldn't vote Republican. Unless something extraordinary happens, I won't be able to vote Democrat either. Then what??? I'll never NOT vote, and I vowed some time ago never to throw away another vote.

    I hope the Republicans get it together quick. I'm rootin' for ya, believe me.
    --Greta Ode
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  4. #24
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    so my simplistic version of what you are saying is, well the last president from a party is bad so im not going to consider another from that party and blindly vote for the other party? Seems thats what many did and are now getting exactly what they asked for. Obama never really tried to hide anything, he didn't have to. Can't lie if you aren't asked the question. Maybe now voters will decide to get more informed. Or maybe the welfare state is now what america wants. If so then I want no part of it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    so my simplistic version of what you are saying is, well the last president from a party is bad so im not going to consider another from that party and blindly vote for the other party? Seems thats what many did and are now getting exactly what they asked for. Obama never really tried to hide anything, he didn't have to. Can't lie if you aren't asked the question. Maybe now voters will decide to get more informed. Or maybe the welfare state is now what america wants. If so then I want no part of it.
    This is not a simplistic version--it is an incorrect version.

    Speaking for myself, I was perfectly well-informed and made a deliberate, not blind, decision. I asked every question possible of myself and considered the words and records of both candidates.

    Perhaps others voted blindly. I did not, nor did many people I know. I am sorry you interpreted that from my posts. I will say it again--it was a deliberate, deliberated decision. In a better world, I would have had two better candidates from two better parties to choose between.

    And by the way--The more Republicans call folks who voted for Obama blind, uninformed, or other substitute words for "stupid," the less likely it will be that those of us who voted--deliberately, not blindly--for Obama will be willing to consider a Republican in the near future, no matter how unhappy we may be in four years.

    And also--I, personally, do not think we are headed for a welfare state. I have come to the conclusion that Obama has absolutely no intention of even considering the poor, much less assisting them. What I see is government and business merging, with government and business reaping the benefits.

    The poor are just an excuse for what's going on. So is the environment. Just as it was with the Republicans, so it seems to be with the Democrats--it's about money, business, and power. The rest is just distraction. So much for "change."
    --Greta Ode
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  6. #26
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    I did not mean you voted blindly, sorry if it came off that way.
    You said you voted against your principles to get even and send a message to the republican party (not saying that mccain stood for your principles btw). I think its a big cop out when folks say they voted against republicans because of Bush. You voted for who you thought would help you out most with his hope and change and now that its more of the same you realize its not such a great idea. If you actually cared for the principles of what you believe you would not have voted for Obama who has a history of liberal policies and was voted the most liberal senator in the Senate for the short time he was in there. You knew what you were getting and voted against your principles. If it takes catering to the other party to get votes then i don't want them i would rather have someone that sticks up for the beliefs of the republican party then to pander to a certain group of people outside those beliefs

  7. #27
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    I did not mean you voted blindly, sorry if it came off that way.
    You said you voted against your principles NO I DID NOT to get even and send a message NO I DID NOT to the republican party (not saying that mccain stood for your principles btw). THEN WHY WOULD I VOTE FOR HIM, EITHER? I think its a big cop out when folks say they voted against republicans because of Bush. I VOTED FOR SOMEONE, THOUGH TO A LARGE DEGREE BECAUSE MCCAIN AFFIRMED THAT HE WOULD CONTINUE BUSH'S POLICIES,WHICH I DISAGREED WITH. You voted for who you thought would help you out most with his hope and change IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME, IT HAD TO DO WITH WHAT I THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY; I AM SINGLE, NO CHILDREN, EMPLOYED, AND ABLE-BODIED--I'VE NEVER PERSONALLY CAUGHT A BREAK FROM A POLITICAL DECISION and now that its more of the same WHICH OBAMA CAMPAIGNED AGAINST, AND BTW, MORE OF THE SAME IS WHAT MCCAIN ACTUALLY PLEDGED you realize its not such a great idea. THE IDEA WAS FINE; THE OUTCOME IS CONTRARY TO THE IDEA. If you actually cared for the principles of what you believe you would not have voted for Obama WHO WOULD I HAVE VOTED FOR??? NEITHER CANDIDATE REPRESENTED MY PRINCIPLES ADEQUATELY, AND I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THROWING AWAY A VOTE NOR DO I BELIEVE IN ABSTAINING who has a history of liberal policies THAT'S NOT THE CORE ISSUE AS I SEE IT and was voted ??? the most liberal senator in the Senate THIS, IN MY ANALYSIS, WAS PROPAGANDA for the short time he was in there. You knew what you were getting NO, I'M TELLING YOU I GOT THE OPPOSITE and voted against your principles. AGAIN, NEITHER CANDIDATE REPRESENTED MY PRINCIPLES; I VOTED FOR THE PERSON I THOUGHT WOULD DO A BETTER JOB THAN THE OTHER, EVEN IF THAT MEANT THE PERSON WHO WOULD DO THE LEAST DAMAGE If it takes catering to the other party to get votes then i don't want them I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO CATER--JUST TO REALIZE THAT I AM NEITHER STUPID NOR UNTHOUGHTFUL, AND IF REPUBLICANS KEEP SAYING I AM THERE'S LITTLE CHANCE I'LL VOTE REPUBLICAN. i would rather have someone that sticks up for the beliefs of the republican party AND WHAT ARE THOSE??? AND WHAT PARTY MEMBER FOLLOWS THEM, PRAY TELL??? PRODUCE A CANDIDATE THAT CAN ARTICULATE THEM AND FOLLOW THROUGH ON THEM (AND DOESN'T CALL ME STUPID) AND I WILL CERTAINLY CONSIDER HIM OR HER then to pander to a certain group of people outside those beliefs I WOULD CERTAINLY NOT ASK ANYONE TO PANDER. SOMEONE ASKED WHY I VOTED FOR OBAMA, AND I'M TELLING HIM.
    I guess when you get right down to it, I think the two parties are basically interchangeable. I do not believe in not voting, and I did not want to throw my vote into the wind.

    !Sorry about the all-caps, by the way--I didn't mean to yell the WHOLE time, but now I'm too tired to go back and retype.)
    --Greta Ode
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  8. #28
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    I suppose I just don't understand how someone can look at Barack Obama and think they would've gotten anything other than what they are now getting. Again he didn't hide anything, his voting record was out there. Thats the thing about politicians some of them lie and if someone says they are all of a sudden going to do something completely the opposite as they have always done without any reason, they are probably lying. As was the case with Barrack Obama. You voted for who you felt was the best candidate for youu and that is definitely your right and its great that you are willing to get involved. McCain ran on being a fiscal conservative and social liberal. Sounds like thats exactly what you guys wanted. He said he would completely stop spending (wouldn't have happened but if we are going off campain promises) kept the lower taxes. Lower taxes and lower spending generally equate to huge deficits which is where Bush went wrong. He lowered taxes and the economy rebounded, he forgot to cut the spending and spent like crazy. Now we have a huge deficit.

    Another thing people don't realise is that the democrats were in office for the last 2 years of his administration. If he would've used the veto power a bit more we wouldn't have the spending we did. Congress controls the spending. Not "neccessarily" the President. Bush even said in an interview that he couldn't veto as much as he wanted to because democrats tied spending up into Military funding.

    Again McCain ran on the same conservative policies that we all are saying we need and want in the party. Also some liberal ones that we don't want. Obama ran on cutting taxes and increasing spending, just like what Bush actually did, but for some odd reason people didn't look at his voting record or realise they were voting for what we just got out of as far as fiscal troubles and yet somehow people think that we are getting something different. Which i suppose is true because Obama is trying to do the same just on a much grander and more sweeping scale.

  9. #29
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    ... McCain ran on being a fiscal conservative and social liberal. ...
    ???

    Not seeing much terribly conservative about his economics, nor much liberal about his social issues.

    Oh, well. I've done all the explaining I can muster the energy to type about.

    I've trained my dogs and gotten some sun, and now I'm going to take a 15 minute nap. Then I'm going to go make a coconut cream pie, and bring it to a barbecue, and watch fireworks, and probably talk politics face to face with folks I know, and there may be adult beverages involved. It should be a good 4th celebration.

    Glad to be able to talk politics, just wish there was some good news to talk about--beyond that we can still talk about it. Still a great country. Have a good day.
    --Greta Ode
    willing slave to the whims of
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  10. #30
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    well hope you have a great time! Hppy 4th everyone.

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