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Thread: Happy 4th of July

  1. #21
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    The concept, as you see, is not without precedent.

    However, only someone wiser than I could discern whether a list of "causes" could be made that meet the egregious violations listed in the Declaration of 1776.

    However, in the reality of our nation today, the way to "rebel" is through the ballot box.

    We often mention that we "must" vote for one of the two principal parties, R or D, because a vote for a minority party would be "wasted". However, if a third party could draw enough votes to put demonstrate general dissatisfaction with botht he Rs and Ds, it might lead to those 3rd party ideas having a greater impact on the two primary parties. With the Rs and Ds sort of in a dead heat for the votes cast, if the 3rd party were of significant enough numbers, either the Rs or Ds might be led to modify their platforms to appeal to this 3rd party group if the numbers were significant enough. Wouldn't happen in just one election round; or maybe even two. Nothing in the evolution of our country's policies and trends has happened that quickly, but rather a more gradual trend.
    Read a little further, and you will see:

    "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes..."

    Rick Perry's talk of secession is wholly unpatriotic and borders on treasonous. That's schoolyard talk, that most outgrow somewhere in adolescence.

    I'm not going to be one to bash Texas, I was raised there and know it's proud, multinational heritage, and it's key role in helping to make the USA as great as it is. To threaten to undo all that, is childish and not very becoming of someone in his leadership position. Although, he has certainly marginalized his role.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #22
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    Just a note
    Werent there 56 signer and designers of the declaration and didn't 29 of them go to seminary school. And I believe most of them have writings about JC in historic documents.

    Hows come we only hear of the 2 that were not proffessed christians.
    Jefferson and franklin.
    mmmm

    John weatherspoon had some pretty Christian writings

    The master builder of the constitution,and bill of rights,a surveyer and had more Godly writings than cotter has pills.


    That was Rodger Sherman who used the bible to help frame the constitution and the bill of rights. There were countless other such as John witherspoon,John Adams,,,,actual most of them have a plethera of god and Jesus Chriast in there writings concerning Our constitution.

    So as far as I am concerned this is a christian nation.

    If your not christian it doen't matter ,,,Christianity apparently welcomes all comers

    why isnt this history taught.
    All this stuff is in the library of congress.

    Pete

  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Just a note
    Werent there 56 signer and designers of the declaration and didn't 29 of them go to seminary school. And I believe most of them have writings about JC in historic documents.

    Hows come we only hear of the 2 that were not proffessed christians.
    Jefferson and franklin.
    mmmm

    John weatherspoon had some pretty Christian writings

    The master builder of the constitution,and bill of rights,a surveyer and had more Godly writings than cotter has pills.


    That was Rodger Sherman who used the bible to help frame the constitution and the bill of rights. There were countless other such as John witherspoon,John Adams,,,,actual most of them have a plethera of god and Jesus Chriast in there writings concerning Our constitution.

    So as far as I am concerned this is a christian nation.

    If your not christian it doen't matter ,,,Christianity apparently welcomes all comers

    why isnt this history taught.
    All this stuff is in the library of congress.

    Pete
    Actually Pete, many more were not Christian in the sense of accepting the deity of Jesus. While less clear than for many others, this might also have included George Washington who never mentioned the name of Jesus in any of his writings and was identified as a deist by his closest friends following his death. Only a minority of the population at large and a minority of the signers attended church more than very infrequently. Many were deists including Ben Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually Pete, many more were not Christian in the sense of accepting the deity of Jesus. While less clear than for many others, this might also have included George Washington who never mentioned the name of Jesus in any of his writings and was identified as a deist by his closest friends following his death. Only a minority of the population at large and a minority of the signers attended church more than very infrequently. Many were deists including Ben Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc.
    Yes, the were all part of the Enlightenment. As the nation grew and religion worked its way into government, those that were enlightened could not get elected. Our government has not had the intelletic and vision since the late 1700's. Yet, the documents they produced are still with us though misinterpreted and manligned over the years.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-05-2009 at 09:51 AM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  5. #25
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually Pete, many more were not Christian in the sense of accepting the deity of Jesus. While less clear than for many others, this might also have included George Washington who never mentioned the name of Jesus in any of his writings and was identified as a deist by his closest friends following his death. Only a minority of the population at large and a minority of the signers attended church more than very infrequently. Many were deists including Ben Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc.
    There you go, what are your sources for this? Washington did mention Jesus in his writings and was identified as a very Devout Christian by his family.He never spoke of his actions in Combat with many either but that doesn't mean he wasn't in the fighting.

    A snippet from a speech from Washington to the Delaware Indians. He also served on the Vestry of Truro episcopal church. His family records that he was very devout. Simply not mentioning Jesus in every correspondence does not mean that you are not a Christian we believe in the trinity ..God is Jesus, it is implied.

    "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

    George Washington's Speech to Delaware Indian Chiefs on May 12, 1779, in The Writings of George Washington, p. 55
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

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    [QUOTEActually Pete, many more were not Christian in the sense of accepting the deity of Jesus. While less clear than for many others, this might also have included George Washington who never mentioned the name of Jesus in any of his writings and was identified as a deist by his closest friends following his death. Only a minority of the population at large and a minority of the signers attended church more than very infrequently. Many were deists including Ben Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc][/QUOTE]

    Jeff
    Thats not true.
    I just looked at a bunch of old documents that were posted up on one of those projectors. Overwelmingly the 56 framers had God and jesus Christ in their writings ,

    They also used biblical teachings to persuade and discuss what would constitute the makings of out declarations,bill rights and constitution.
    They even had their signature on it.

    See this is all new light to me. I think we are being hoodweinked by modern historians.
    This is more important than anything taught in our schools.
    This stuff was earth shattering news to me after all I have only heared about only the 3 or 4 that didn't have Godly writings and nothing else about the other 52 framers.

    Now that I have seen it with my own eyes I am kind of pissed about the antics displaid by those who work hard to ignor the whole trueth to persuade those seeking to know the whole trueth and nothin but the trueth.

    But I think like everything else,,,proof is proof only to the individual seeking satisfaction of their views..

    My belief is renewed about our founding fathers.

    Pete

  7. #27
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post

    Thats not true.
    I just looked at a bunch of old documents that were posted up on one of those projectors. Overwelmingly the 56 framers had God and jesus Christ in their writings ,

    Pete
    Pete, you are trying to revise history!

    They were Deist and believed in Nature's God and not the biblical God. If they were not Agnostic/Unitarian then we would have an official state sponsored religion.

    The truth is the truth!
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Pete, you are trying to revise history!

    They were Deist and believed in Nature's God and not the biblical God. If they were not Agnostic/Unitarian then we would have an official state sponsored religion.

    The truth is the truth!
    Prove it with credible references.
    Last edited by K.Bullock; 07-05-2009 at 11:19 AM.
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    How about some qoutes from Mr. Jefferson himself?

    I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.Thomas Jefferson


    I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.Thomas Jefferson

    Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.Thomas Jefferson

    The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time.Thomas Jefferson

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.Thomas Jefferson
    I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us.Thomas Jefferson
    Epicureanism is an ancient Greek philosophical system taught by Epicurus. It emphasized the goal of a happy and content life in the here and now, rejecting both superstitous fear of the gods and notions of an afterlife.

    Jefferson did beleive in a God but, not the biblical God. He believed in Nature's God which is true to his Agnostic/Unitarin beliefs.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-05-2009 at 12:28 PM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  10. #30
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    Pete, you are trying to revise history
    Franco
    if I coud figure out how to get it on the screen I would post it.
    Tom,and ben were in a major minority when it came to christianity.

    There were litterally hundreds of referenced of JC mentioned in the majority of the framers writtinngs,,, I call Bullshit on you and Jeff
    Your trying to prove your historical version of the framers by posting only what you want others to rea and by using only the examples you provide. I just saw most of the shooting match. The evidence crushes your theory. With your wonderful technical knowledge you can be fair by posting up all of the writtings by the other 50 or so framers of our constitution.

    Pete

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