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Thread: Health care has changed

  1. #11
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Medical malpractice only accounts for about 2% of all health care costs. Much less than the cost of the uninsured by about half. If one can show damages, recourse is a key component of our system. We hear some big settlements, but in the whole scheme of things it is a drop in the bucket.
    Not to us it isn't. OB/GYN's are dropping like flys becasue of the rates. Ours are crazy and we have never had a claim against us in 18 years.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Not to us it isn't. OB/GYN's are dropping like flys becasue of the rates. Ours are crazy and we have never had a claim against us in 18 years.
    What percent of the gross?

  3. #13
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Not to us it isn't. OB/GYN's are dropping like flys becasue of the rates. Ours are crazy and we have never had a claim against us in 18 years.
    Plus if we get to resolve this "The patient is no longer the one, and the only one, the caregiver has to serve. An inescapable result is that the interest of the patient is often in direct conflict with the interest of the caregiverís ultimate employer." I would think suits would decrease.

  4. #14
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    1. Issue some sort of a card with a passport. LEGAL visitors get emergency care if needed. No card, no care. Die in the damn parking lot or go back to your own country and get the care you need, I really don't care. If you shouldn't be here in the first place...
    Huge issue solved.
    2. Stop giving gov money to the drug companies for "research" Also, stop all advertising of drugs in anything but trade(medical) magazines. No tv, no good housekeeping, no billboards, no ink pens, art pads, etc. Then they can afford their own damn research.

    3. Medical bills no longer able to be added to bankruptcies. I don't care if you pay $20 a month for the rest of your life, you don't get to go buy a new house or a new car when you write off that you owed Dr. Smith $5000.

    Money saved could be used to cover catastrophic coverage for lower income folks and keep the cost down for those that can afford it.

    There are lots of other common sense things that could be done to keep a free market type health care program running more efficiently than ever, cheaper than ever and include more than ever.

    BUT taking away health care savings accounts and the like are NOT the answer here.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  5. #15
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Not to us it isn't. OB/GYN's are dropping like flys becasue of the rates. Ours are crazy and we have never had a claim against us in 18 years.
    You are correct, its the main reason my brother switched his practice, I could live quite well off what he pays in malpractice insurance and like you he had never had a claim either. My ex's OB/GYN doesnt even take on new patients and is considering changing practices since the insurance is so high
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  6. #16
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Medical malpractice only accounts for about 2% of all health care costs. Much less than the cost of the uninsured by about half. If one can show damages, recourse is a key component of our system. We hear some big settlements, but in the whole scheme of things it is a drop in the bucket.

    With all due respect, that is total crap. By actually laying caring hands on a patient, and using history and physical exam skills, I can diagnose 90% of what I see. But because of the current climate, I and every doctor I know still orders CTs, XRs, labs....most of which contribute nothing to the diagnosis or treatment plan. So a $400 ER visit now becomes a $7500. I don't get paid, the poor patient gets bankrupt, and nobody benefits.

    Last week, our hospital CEO, VP-nursing, and two docs and 4 lawyers spent 2 hours in deposition on a case that is totally frivilous. If I may assume that the hospital execs and doctors time is worth at least what the lawyers time is, then that's $250 x 8 x 2 hours == $4000! That's not counted in your 2%, but guess who pays it? Every American who pays health insurance premiums, because somebody's insurance pays those legal fees, and they're passed on to YOU.

    Every piece of medical equipment from pacers to artificial joints must carry manufacture's liability, equating to ~25% of the final cost. THAT's not counted in the "2%".

    If we could eliminate frivolous lawsuits and their attendant costs, we could EASILY compete with other countries on dollars per person spent on healthcare.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  7. #17
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    With all due respect, that is total crap. By actually laying caring hands on a patient, and using history and physical exam skills, I can diagnose 90% of what I see. But because of the current climate, I and every doctor I know still orders CTs, XRs, labs....most of which contribute nothing to the diagnosis or treatment plan. So a $400 ER visit now becomes a $7500. I don't get paid, the poor patient gets bankrupt, and nobody benefits.

    Last week, our hospital CEO, VP-nursing, and two docs and 4 lawyers spent 2 hours in deposition on a case that is totally frivilous. If I may assume that the hospital execs and doctors time is worth at least what the lawyers time is, then that's $250 x 8 x 2 hours == $4000! That's not counted in your 2%, but guess who pays it? Every American who pays health insurance premiums, because somebody's insurance pays those legal fees, and they're passed on to YOU.

    Every piece of medical equipment from pacers to artificial joints must carry manufacture's liability, equating to ~25% of the final cost. THAT's not counted in the "2%".

    If we could eliminate frivolous lawsuits and their attendant costs, we could EASILY compete with other countries on dollars per person spent on healthcare.
    I see your point, but it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the lack of market forces. The cost of production of any good or service has little to do in the long run with selling price with market forces. If a good or service prices itself out of the market to cover cost, either it will be sold at a loss(and not for long) or not sold. In health care the AMA and government control the supply and government and insurance companies control the demand (by paying the price). Even if malpractice was 10% (including defensive medicine) it is a drop in the bucket.
    In boob jobs and other elective surgeries, do the doctors, nurses, and equipment makers pay malpractice insurance? Yep! Their prices are going down! Out of pocket payment(market forces).
    Last edited by tpaschal30; 07-16-2009 at 10:00 PM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Here is another great example of how good insurance is for us. Tomorrow (Saturday) I have to come in to do a procedure for one patient that will take about 2 hours of my time and an hour of the physicians time. The insurance will reimburse $100.67 for this. Cost of materials and reagents alone for this procedure is right around $45, leaving about $55 to cover 2 hours of my time and hour of the docís time. The doc is the one getting screwed because that is not even enough to cover me for 2 hours in salary alone not to mention benefits, insurance, and general operating expenses.

    Oh yeah, there is the $15 co-pay
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #19
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    I see your point, but it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the lack of market forces. The cost of production of any good or service has little to do in the long run with selling price with market forces. If a good or service prices itself out of the market to cover cost, either it will be sold at a loss(and not for long) or not sold. In health care the AMA and government control the supply and government and insurance companies control the demand (by paying the price). Even if malpractice was 10% (including defensive medicine) it is a drop in the bucket.
    In boob jobs and other elective surgeries, do the doctors, nurses, and equipment makers pay malpractice insurance? Yep! Their prices are going down! Out of pocket payment(market forces).
    Prices are going down because they're fixed by the gov't and insurance companies, that are allowed to collectively set prices. Not a very free market. Try walking into a tire shop and telling the man, "I'm going to pay 28% of what you're asking for the first tire, then 14% of the second, and 5% for the last two. Then tell him he HAS to perform the work, accept what you're telling him you're gonna pay, or find another job.

    Well, most docs don't quit (although many are) becasue they still make a good living, and went into this to help people, not get rich. Unfortunately, its not the current docs who are doing anything about it, it's our nations best and brightest students who USED to go into medicine, but now figure it's not worth the hassle, and risk of incurring MASSIVE educational debt, and ending up with a gov't job. Next time you go to the doctor, and can't understand a word he or she says, or the business manager at the office seems to have more on the ball than the doc....you'll know why. Its gonna get worse, as more and more of the old-time docs hang it up.

    off the soapbox regards,
    dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #20
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Prices are going down because they're fixed by the gov't and insurance companies, that are allowed to collectively set prices. Not a very free market. Try walking into a tire shop and telling the man, "I'm going to pay 28% of what you're asking for the first tire, then 14% of the second, and 5% for the last two. Then tell him he HAS to perform the work, accept what you're telling him you're gonna pay, or find another job.

    Well, most docs don't quit (although many are) becasue they still make a good living, and went into this to help people, not get rich. Unfortunately, its not the current docs who are doing anything about it, it's our nations best and brightest students who USED to go into medicine, but now figure it's not worth the hassle, and risk of incurring MASSIVE educational debt, and ending up with a gov't job. Next time you go to the doctor, and can't understand a word he or she says, or the business manager at the office seems to have more on the ball than the doc....you'll know why. Its gonna get worse, as more and more of the old-time docs hang it up.

    off the soapbox regards,
    dave
    Elective boob jobs and plastic surgery are generally not covered by insurance. It is out of pocket. It is the only sector of medicine costs are going down. Name another industry where technological advances have increased costs?

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