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Thread: Ethical Tactics ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Default Ethical Tactics ?

    If the Health Care Bill is so good, why don't the Democrats want anyone to read it first? Anyone remember the TRILLION dollar stimulus bill they didn't want us to read as well. The stimulus bill that isn't working!

    Pelosi Censors Republicans
    by Rep. John Carter 07/16/2009

    Monday night Democrats voted to shut down the U.S. House Representatives rather than allow a handful of Republican Congressmen to speak on the floor. What could have been so offensive or frightening about our discourse that Speaker Pelosi felt she had to protect her party by gagging free speech in the House?

    In fact, we had planned to speak on the lack of transparency of the House since Democrats took control. We had planned to criticize Speaker Pelosi for repeatedly denying Members, the media, and the public to right to read legislation before it was voted on. We were set to discuss House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer’s statement last week that if his Members were required to read the Democrats’ healthcare reform package before it was voted on, it would fail.

    So the Speaker obviously feels that if the public is truly aware of her party’s agenda, they will reject it. She is now making sure the public is kept in the dark by trampling the centuries-old democratic traditions of the House.

    What are those traditions? Every day that the House is in session, following the final vote of the day, representatives are allowed the privilege of free speech on the House floor in what is known as “Special Orders.” They may speak for one minute, five minutes, or one hour segments, and must request their time in advance. Time is allocated equally to both parties on a first-come basis.

    Since the advent of live C-SPAN coverage of the House, this has provided a national televised outlet for both Republicans and Democrats to speak to the nation on topics they feel were not adequately addressed during regular order in the House, during which the Democrat majority has the parliamentary ability to limit debate and speeches.

    Special Orders therefore frequently serves as a political safety valve if the party in the majority becomes too dictatorial during debate, using t heir majority status to truly oppress the minority’s ability to debate and offer amendments.

    That is now the case in the House, with the Democrat majority under Pelosi repeatedly rejecting House rules to ram a far-left agenda through before the public has time to learn what is actually in the bills.

    This is what we were committed to bring to public light.

    House rules require a bill be publicly posted for three days before it can be voted on. That basic rule was written by none other than Thomas Jefferson as part of the original rules package of the House, as it is essential to the survival of representative democracy.

    But Nancy Pelosi and her House Democrats have chosen to ignore the rule on every major issue taken up by the House this year, including:

    The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - The Obama Stimulus: This one just had to pass that very day because time was a-wastin’ in getting those new jobs coming. We couldn’t wait for Members to read it. But then the President waited four days to sign it into law while he spent the weekend in Chicago, and months later none of the new jobs have come into existence.

    The Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization (SCHIP): Speaker Pelosi couldn’t wait on this one either, although the deadline for reauthorization was still two months away.

    The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act: Lilly was peddled as covering decades-old wage discrimination cases, but after waiting 2 0 years, Congress couldn’t wait one more day to let Members actually read the thing. The bill is still stuck in the Senate Committee

    The Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009: No excuses at all on this one. They just didn’t want the details known.

    The Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009: This one has been languishing since last October, but we suddenly had to pass it that day.

    The AIG Bonus Tax Act: This had to get through right then, don’t mind the details, we just had to go after those bonuses. Only when we read what passed after the fact, the bill contained waivers for all of the same executives the bill was supposed to reign in, many with curiously close ties to Treasury Secretary and tax cheat Tim Geithner.

    The Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009: No rush whatever on this one time-wise, the Democrats just didn’t want people talking about the hundreds of billions given to foreign banks that should have gone to our troops.

    The American Clean Energy and Security Act/National Cap-and-Trade Energy Tax:
    No excuse was offered on this one, the Speaker just didn’t want anybody reading Henry Waxman’s 300 page amendment he sneaked in overnight before we were forced to vote. Three weeks later, the Senate shows no intention of taking up the bill before the opening day of dove season, if then.

    There’s a reason all these bills are listed. The list constitutes every major policy bill undertaken by Congress this year. House Democrats are not just waiving the three-day rule -- they have destroyed it, and are intentionally pushing their agenda to the floor with blindfolds on the media and the public.

    This constitutes an astonishing and chilling acceleration of the assault on representative democracy that began in earnest this January.

    Representative democracy works when a U.S. Representative listens to the input of their constituents, and votes the way the majority of their district would vote. Only a Representative can’t listen if no one has ever seen the bill, or had time to provide input. They have to vote blind, which for too many, is voting the way their leadership tells them.

    This is what Republican House Members were going to the floor to say Monday night. We were set to decry the loss of openness in the House.

    Instead, we were met with a slammed door by Democrats, who are now committed to burying truth along with democracy.

    The Democrats are the majority -- for now. They chose to silence debate on the floor by gagging House Republican Members from using their historical right to speak after the close of the day. But they cannot stop us from speaking outside the halls of Congress and letting the American public know the truth about their ongoing attack against the very foundations of a free Republic.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-19-2009 at 01:04 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  2. #2
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Frankly, I don't know what to think anymore.

    The stimulus bill was originally conceived under Bush II. And since life begins at conception, I'm calling that one HIS baby. I clearly remember Hank Paulson holding up ONE PAGE describing how 700 billion would be used. It take me 8 pages of consent forms to lance a pimple on someone's a$$, so I doubted the integrity of the stimulus money.

    Now, clearly obama has adopted this bastard child, and want to raise it, and watch it grow. I honestly don't know who to thank, or who to blame. All I know is that we are getting $crewed, and bankers and politicians, both republican and democrat, are getting rich!

    I think I'm going to go work on "hold", as my dog is mouthing pretty bad. Then run some derby doubles....then....cold ones and a bonfire to wrap up a beautiful Sunday. (76 and sunny)

    Later,
    Dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    The Stimulus/Pork bill that Obama signed in February09 is all his.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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    Senior Member limiman12's Avatar
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    So if these bills were passed without following the Rules Of the House? Can't they be ruled invalid/unconstitutional? I was aware at the less then three days to read the 1000 page "stimulous" bill, but not the others. If a bill is not passed in occordance with the rules how is it legal, when if a cop arrasets a murderer without reading his Miranda rights the murderer walks? Seems like a double standard working the wrong way.

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limiman12 View Post
    So if these bills were passed without following the Rules Of the House? Can't they be ruled invalid/unconstitutional? I was aware at the less then three days to read the 1000 page "stimulous" bill, but not the others. If a bill is not passed in occordance with the rules how is it legal, when if a cop arrasets a murderer without reading his Miranda rights the murderer walks? Seems like a double standard working the wrong way.
    What is being done is in accordance with the rules of the House and consistent with what Republicans did routinely when they controlled the House (for example, with the Bush tax cut bill). Democrats decried these tactics when they were used by the Republicans (who defended them as the only way to do the people's business) and Republicans afr now upset when the shoe has moved to the other foot. In addition, the rules of the House are solely the concern of the House and are not subject to Court review (U.S. Constitution, Section V.2).

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    And who is it that sanctions congress?

    You do with your vote.

    Is this the issue, come election time, that will have you voting against the incumbent or speaking out against congress? Or, will you look at the d or r and vote accordingly.

    BTW, I expect most lefty’s love the idea of government controlled health care and honestly believe this represents the change they voted for.

    BTW2, I also expect that most lefty’s couldn’t give 2 $h!ts whether the congress is run fairly as long as the left wing socialist agenda they voted for comes to pass.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post

    consistent with what Republicans did routinely when they controlled the House (for example, with the Bush tax cut bill).
    A huge difference; Bush was at least trying to give taxpayers thier money back while the Democrats are instituting their socialist agenda. Thus, if they stay in power long enough we will all be poor.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    A huge difference; Bush was at least trying to give taxpayers thier money back while the Democrats are instituting their socialist agenda. Thus, if they stay in power long enough we will all be poor.
    So, if I understand you, the difference is that it's OK to follow these kinds of tactics if you agree with the objective and wrong if you disagree.

    I always thought that one of the things we considered most important about our society is that we believed that the ends do not justify the means. That was one of the factors that we said differentiated us from the Communists during the Cold War. Today, the radical right have become the new Communists, believing that anything is justifiable if done for a "good cause." Unfortunately, the radical left is not far behind. Personally, I disagree and believe that how we make decisions as a society is infinitely more important that what decisions we make. If we make decisions in a respectfully inclusive way, I believe that this will ultimately be reflected in the quality of decisions made even if there are some nasty mistakes (e.g. the election of .... -- insert the villain of your choice) along the way.

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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    So, if I understand you, the difference is that it's OK to follow these kinds of tactics if you agree with the objective and wrong if you disagree.

    .

    That's exactly how you operate as well.

    Anything Obama and the Progressives do is either OK or Bush's fault.
    Stan b & Elvis

  10. #10
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post

    So, if I understand you, the difference is that it's OK to follow these kinds of tactics if you agree with the objective and wrong if you disagree.
    How can any American not agree with getting to keep more of thier money? As opposed to higher taxes on everything as the gooberment blunders it way though our money and all the money they are borrowing and printing and insuring a real financial catasropy. All the while destroying the best health Care System in the world. The Democrates are out of control!
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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