Which do you want to see as a judge

[Kevin WI]

in Master:

a long drawn out hunt on one mark where the dog does not get close to another fall nor gets out of sight in the woods, but finally works it out thru perseverance ....or a handle that may or may not be quick?

[Jason Brion]

Quick handle. Long drawn out hunts prove very few things to me...the main one being that you don't care that your dog is in the decoys while the next group of birds are getting ready to work the spread.

BTW there is a big difference between a quick handle when the dog knows the area of the fall. Versus a quick handle where the dog had no clue.

[Juli H]

quick handle....

question is, what do most people consider a long hunt? over 1.5 minutes? over a minute, over 30 seconds?

Juli

[badbullgator]

Well with that good of a description I have to say.” it depends”. If you dog is not in the area of the fall it has shown me it did not mark the fall and we all know even a blind pig can find an acorn if it hunts long enough. All things being equally in that the dog in both cases missed the AOF, handle your dog and get it over with. As a judge I really hate handlers that just let the dog hunt for ages because they don’t want to handle. I have had many tell me they did not handle because it would be their second handle. There is no rule about how many handles you can have but there are rules about scoring marks and usually if you have to handle on more than one you are not going to carry a high enough average to move on. Guess what, you can let him hunt all day, he did not mark the fall and got a zero for that mark. Unless you are afraid you cannot handle your dog to the mark, do everyone a favor and pick up the bird and hope for a call back if you dog has done well enough to average out on the rest of his marks.

[badbullgator]

quick handle....

question is, what do most people consider a long hunt? over 1.5 minutes? over a minute, over 30 seconds?

Juli

Juli
The amount of time does not matter. AOF does. If the dog is in the AOF I don't care how long it hunts, of course if it is in the AOF the hunt should not take long depending on conditions

[short retired]

I would rather see them hunt. But I am usually in the minority on that one.

Problem with that question is how the rule book states it. While the quick handle is more aesthetically pleasing and much better for time purposes. The rule book states that (paraphrasing) a dog that reaches the bird “unaided” MUST be scored APPRECIABLY higher than a dog that is “aided”. This is that age old problem at a test…I have had judges say at the test dog that they would rather see quick handles than big hunts. I handle cuz I want to pass, but it is wrong. A dog that sucks it up and works it out should be scored better.

[Juli H]

okay - long drawn out hunt OUT of the AOF....

let's say the dog puts on a good hunt in the AOF for 15-20 seconds... then moves out of the AOF and hunts all over the countryside (let's say 40-50 yd radius from the gun station).....how long do you allow the dog to hunt out of the area before wanting to see a handle?

once the dog leaves the AOF and starts going 'bonkers' (within 5-10 seconds) I would handle (me personally)...

Juli

[short retired]

once the dog leaves the AOF and starts going 'bonkers' (within 5-10 seconds) I would handle (me personally)...

Juli

Once they leave you have to handle anyway to avoid a switch.


I was assuming they got to the AOF and stayed in...if they are not in the AOF you have to handle. But a dog that gets there and figures it out......that's I what i like. That dog shows guts. A handle only shows they handle. (at the MH level, handling should be no big feat) But digging it up on their own, no matter how long it takes, (again, assuming they are in the AOF) shows a lot more...JMO


not to mention the rules say it is to be scored better.

[Kevin WI]

Ok....the situation was this...the line to the mark was very tall grass...so tall you could only see the movement of the grass to know where the dog was....there were two paths.....one they could get lost in and they wouldn't come out and the other led to a clearer area where the bird was landing at the edge of the woods.
The dog took the wrong path and basically got lost in the weeds and couldn't see to get unlost if you can call that a word.
The problem is, because of all the tall grass, handling was not an option unless unless you wanted many cast refusals because the dog simply couldn't see you thru the thick weeds. and calling them in to see you would have meant calling them back almost all the way back to the line
So the dog was left to work it out and when it finally came clear it was in such close proximity, the handler let the dog work it out. Dog never stopped hunting. Once it hit the clearer area, it never went back to where it had hunted and got finally the bird.
This dog was carried...but some wondered why.....the first series the dog stepped on all the marks but had a shaky land blind.

[short retired]

Ok....the situation was this...the line to the mark was very tall grass...so tall you could only see the movement of the grass to know where the dog was....there were two paths.....one they could get lost in and they wouldn't come out and the other led to a clearer area where the bird was landing at the edge of the woods.
The dog took the wrong path and basically got lost in the weeds and couldn't see to get unlost if you can call that a word.
The problem is, because of all the tall grass, handling was not an option unless unless you wanted many cast refusals because the dog simply couldn't see you thru the thick weeds. and calling them in to see you would have meant calling them back almost all the way back to the line
So the dog was left to work it out and when it finally came clear it was in such close proximity, the handler let the dog work it out. Dog never stopped hunting. Once it hit the clearer area, it never went back to where it had hunted and got finally the bird.
This dog was carried...but some wondered why.....the first series the dog stepped on all the marks but had a shaky land blind.

Sounds like a bad test and a dog with some guts. If you cant handle, then how could any judge drop a dog for an excessive hunt? I carry that dog too. I have no problems with birds in cover, especially at that level, or making the line to the bird in heavy cover, but you have to be able to see your dog enough to handle.