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Thread: 8.5 BILLION $ To ACORN !!!

  1. #21
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    If your problem is with facts and truth then your the one who is taking it personal. I would also like to know what "Godless progressives" statement is all about. What kind of stereotype would you like to pin on them?
    It's not a stereo type, it is only derogatory if you see it that way.
    Mr. Yardley has admitted as such.
    If you don't beleive in God and you are a progessive politically then you would be a Godless progressive.

    If that is a bad thing, I am sorry.
    I don't think I invented it, but maybe I did.

    Having said that, Snopes is NOT the final word on everything.
    And opinions are just that, opinions, no matter how many paragraphs one writes to support ones opinion.
    Every one here has an opinion based on their lifes experiences, mine led me to be called a right wing extremist.
    Mr. Yardleys led him to be a Godless progressive (based on his own expressed opinions and positions).
    But I never questioned Mr. Yardley's integrity.
    To insinuate that my integrity is flawed, I take exception.
    You may not like my opinions, nor I yours, but we both have the right to express them as we came to our positions in earnest.

    stan b
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Yardley, tax cuts proposed do NOT offset taxes paid.
    I smoke decent cigars (Nordings & Rocky Patel's) $1.00 a stick.
    An interesting side note on this, you may want to keep in mind that the tax on cigarettes is not really a tax but really a fee. You know, exactly like the $0.75 per pack "health impact fee" that Gov. T. "no new taxes" Pawlenty put in effect in Minnesota. In fact, a lot of fees have increased here but of course, not taxes. Well, except everyone's local taxes going up 20%+.

    RK, just curious if you would care to directly refute any other facts presented by Jeff, or go beyond the cigar tax. If so, please do.

    Oh, and do you see the irony in the statement
    One thing about Godless progressives, when you pin them they get personal.
    Jeff's factual statement about items left off your list is "personal". Very interesting.

  3. #23
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    An interesting side note on this, you may want to keep in mind that the tax on cigarettes is not really a tax but really a fee. You know, exactly like the $0.75 per pack "health impact fee" that Gov. T. "no new taxes" Pawlenty put in effect in Minnesota. In fact, a lot of fees have increased here but of course, not taxes. Well, except everyone's local taxes going up 20%+.

    RK, just curious if you would care to directly refute any other facts presented by Jeff, or go beyond the cigar tax. If so, please do.

    Oh, and do you see the irony in the statement
    Jeff's factual statement about items left off your list is "personal". Very interesting.
    Is GITMO closed?
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #24
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    An interesting side note on this, you may want to keep in mind that the tax on cigarettes is not really a tax but really a fee. You know, exactly like the $0.75 per pack "health impact fee" that Gov. T. "no new taxes" Pawlenty put in effect in Minnesota. In fact, a lot of fees have increased here but of course, not taxes. Well, except everyone's local taxes going up 20%+.

    RK, just curious if you would care to directly refute any other facts presented by Jeff, or go beyond the cigar tax. If so, please do.

    Oh, and do you see the irony in the statement
    Jeff's factual statement about items left off your list is "personal". Very interesting.
    Taking a page from the leftwings playbook I don't mind those fees, I don't have to pay many of them. The people who pay them are the ones using the service. As for property taxes mine really hasn't went up much. My property value has dropped, and is assessed lower now. Gov. is alright by be, of course I'm not looking for a government handout.

  5. #25
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    An interesting side note on this, you may want to keep in mind that the tax on cigarettes is not really a tax but really a fee. You know, exactly like the $0.75 per pack "health impact fee" that Gov. T. "no new taxes" Pawlenty put in effect in Minnesota. In fact, a lot of fees have increased here but of course, not taxes. Well, except everyone's local taxes going up 20%+.

    RK, just curious if you would care to directly refute any other facts presented by Jeff, or go beyond the cigar tax. If so, please do.

    Oh, and do you see the irony in the statement
    Jeff's factual statement about items left off your list is "personal". Very interesting.
    Enlighten me, what's the difference?

    Is that like "proposed tax cuts" offsetting "taxes paid??"

    ROFLMAO!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  6. #26
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Is GITMO closed?
    FWIW, I do not have problems being called a Godless Progressive just as I assume you have no problems being called a right wing extremist. Both are simple statements that leave off a lot of nuance but are in the correct ball park for both of us. However, as far as I know I am the only Progressive active in POTUS who would be comfortable being called Godless so I would urge you not to make a lot of assumptions about the link between politics and religion. By the way, I probably attend church more often than most.

    Last time I looked, Obama said he would close Gitmo next year (January). I suspect that he will not succeed given the depth of Congressional opposition. That would put it on a list of failed or delayed promises, but not on a list of lies. There's a huge difference unless you, from your perspective, consider every President since the founding of our country to be a pathological liar.

  7. #27
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    FWIW, I do not have problems being called a Godless Progressive just as I assume you have no problems being called a right wing extremist. Both are simple statements that leave off a lot of nuance but are in the correct ball park for both of us. However, as far as I know I am the only Progressive active in POTUS who would be comfortable being called Godless so I would urge you not to make a lot of assumptions about the link between politics and religion. By the way, I probably attend church more often than most.

    Last time I looked, Obama said he would close Gitmo next year (January). I suspect that he will not succeed given the depth of Congressional opposition. That would put it on a list of failed or delayed promises, but not on a list of lies. There's a huge difference unless you, from your perspective, consider every President since the founding of our country to be a pathological liar.
    I will refrain from using the term going forward.

    My apologies to anyone offended.
    But I am confused.
    If you claim to be something, and get identified as such, why would you be offended.

    I am a "right wing extremist," I think that is the term.
    It does not offend me.

    I am not talking about all the other liars, I am talking about the one who promised "CHANGE & HOPE!!"

    stan b
    Stan b & Elvis

  8. #28
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I will refrain from using the term going forward.

    My apologies to anyone offended.
    But I am confused.
    If you claim to be something, and get identified as such, why would you be offended.

    I am a "right wing extremist," I think that is the term.
    It does not offend me.

    I am not talking about all the other liars, I am talking about the one who promised "CHANGE & HOPE!!"

    stan b
    I take no offense at the expression, as I said before. I do sometimes wonder how name calling of any kind advances an argument. From your last sentence it seems you are agreeing that all the other presidents were also liars but that it only matters if you promised change and hope. I'd say Obama has certainly brought change, and for those who support him, he has offered the first glimmers of hope seen in years of disgust with the things being done in the name of our country.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Last time I looked, Obama said he would close Gitmo next year (January). I suspect that he will not succeed given the depth of Congressional opposition. That would put it on a list of failed or delayed promises, but not on a list of lies. There's a huge difference unless you, from your perspective, consider every President since the founding of our country to be a pathological liar.
    Is there any law that would prevent the President from closing Gitmo immediately with the stroke of a pen? I know it gives the progressives some comfort to pass the buck to Congress and not place the blame where it lies, but the answer to the question is that there's not a thing stopping Obama from closing Gitmo other than his lack of intestinal fortitude to keep his campaign promise and a working ink pen. When he campaigned on shutting down Gitmo he either a) was a boldfaced liar or b) a naive chump who was thrust into the spotlight way before he was ready. Neither alternative is attractive.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  10. #30
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Is there any law that would prevent the President from closing Gitmo immediately with the stroke of a pen? I know it gives the progressives some comfort to pass the buck to Congress and not place the blame where it lies, but the answer to the question is that there's not a thing stopping Obama from closing Gitmo other than his lack of intestinal fortitude to keep his campaign promise and a working ink pen. When he campaigned on shutting down Gitmo he either a) was a boldfaced liar or b) a naive chump who was thrust into the spotlight way before he was ready. Neither alternative is attractive.
    Senate Democrats refuse to pass funding for closure. He can prevent anyone new from being placed there but cannot spend money to transport remaining detainees back to the US. Limits have been tested a little but i suspect that is not the primary issue on his plate right now.

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