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Thread: Arlen Specter & Gun Rights

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default Arlen Specter & Gun Rights

    http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...2880232.column

    This local writer might be called a "liberal" on many issues, but I might call him "independent".

    This writer explains why he now supports gun rights, when he once supported gun control. His explanation is very sensible. He raises an interesting point about the Pennsylvania Constitution specifically forbidding gun control.

    Arlen Specter voted against an amendment that would have provided a gun license that worked like a driver's license ... allowing that any state's license would be honored when a resident was visiting in another state.
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...2880232.column

    This local writer might be called a "liberal" on many issues, but I might call him "independent".

    This writer explains why he now supports gun rights, when he once supported gun control. His explanation is very sensible. He raises an interesting point about the Pennsylvania Constitution specifically forbidding gun control.

    Arlen Specter voted against an amendment that would have provided a gun license that worked like a driver's license ... allowing that any state's license would be honored when a resident was visiting in another state.
    I enjoy Pennsylvania's right to carry law and am always irritated that I cannot take my guns to NJ. However, I do not think I would support the proposed amendment. The fact is that PA's law mandates that CC permits must be issued unless a legal basis for exclusion is found and communicated in writing within a matter of days. Limited and in some cases no information is readily available concerning facts that might disqualify a person from carrying a weapon and there are no standards at all with respect to knowledge of gun safety or laws concerning the use of guns. Less is required than would be needed to obtain a hunting license, to vote or to obtain a driver's license.

    While Pennsylvanians may want this as their law (I kind of like it.), I do not believe other states should have to live with PA's lax standards. Personally, I would prefer to see a special class of license for interstate carry that required demonstrated knowledge of safe practices. I would also rather see such a law included in its own bill and debated on its own merits rather than attached to defense funding in a manner that prevents open discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I do not believe other states should have to live with PA's lax standards.
    Curious - How does PA stack up statistically to those states that have strict standards? Please include names of states.
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Curious - How does PA stack up statistically to those states that have strict standards? Please include names of states.
    I'm not sure what kind of statistics you are asking for or whether there is any reliable source for such information. There are lots of databases on state by state carry laws and reciprocity agreements. PA doesn't do very well in getting its permits tobe accepted by other states. The one interesting set of data I came across (can't vouch for the quality) comes from http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/...ith-carry.html. It summarizes the percentage of the population with carry permits:

    Percent of Adults with a License to Carry in each Shall Issue State

    7.45% South Dakota
    6.79% Indiana
    6.76% Pennsylvania
    5.23% Connecticut
    5.12% Washington
    4.34% Idaho
    4.10% Utah
    3.86% Oregon
    3.45% Tennessee
    3.15% Alabama
    2.72% Florida
    2.71% Kentucky
    2.67% Wyoming
    2.41% Maine
    2.18% Arkansas
    2.11% Virginia
    1.94% West Virginia
    1.76% Arizona
    1.75% Oklahoma
    1.70% Montana
    1.70% Michigan
    1.62% Texas
    1.39% South Carolina
    1.34% North Dakota
    1.00% North Carolina
    0.86% Mississippi
    0.62% Louisiana
    0.58% Nevada
    0.45% Minnesota
    0.36% Missouri
    0.33% Ohio
    0.20% Colorado
    0.17% New Mexico

    My own experience with my first carry permit, received around 1990, was that it took five minutes to complete the application and I received the permit two weeks later. The permit was a photocopy of a portion of my application and contained no photo. My most recent permit was issued in 2005 and expires in 2010, cost $12, and includes a bad photocopy of my drivers license photo. It took about three minutes to apply for the renewal which arrived in the mail the same week. I have not purchased a new handgun for about three years. However, the last time I did, the total time from when I entered the store to when I left with a loaded pistol in my pocket was about 15 minutes. I showed my drivers license and paid cash. It would be interesting to know how that compares with other's experiences in their states.

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    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Arizona recognizes all other states valid CCW permits and we have reciprocity agreements with 34 states that recognize ours. Until a couple of years ago we were required to take a two day course, 1 day class room and 1 day range/proficiency (8 hrs each). We are now required to take 1 day in total (4 hrs & 4 hrs). The card issued by Department of Public Safety requires FBI fingerprints and background checks, there is no photo but you MUST carry photo ID or you are in violation of the law. I have had people mistake the CCW card for LEO ID.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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    Georgia:

    - 30-45 minutes at the probate court (~$20)

    - Up to 1 hour at the Sheriff's office getting finger printed (~$20 a month ago but just increased by $20 on 1 July)

    - Permit arrives in a week to 10 days normally (vast improvement now that electronic fingerprinting is available).

    - Permit is a laminated portion of the application completed at the SO (with print from index finger)

    Gun purchase by permit holder requires no background check (as this was already completed by the PC and SO). My last purchase (March of this year) took the better part of an hour at Academy Sports.

    Additional information on Georgia Firearms License found at georgiacarry.org.
    Tom Sangster
    Winterville, GA

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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    Arizona recognizes all other states valid CCW permits and we have reciprocity agreements with 34 states that recognize ours. Until a couple of years ago we were required to take a two day course, 1 day class room and 1 day range/proficiency (8 hrs each). We are now required to take 1 day in total (4 hrs & 4 hrs). The card issued by Department of Public Safety requires FBI fingerprints and background checks, there is no photo but you MUST carry photo ID or you are in violation of the law. I have had people mistake the CCW card for LEO ID.

    Same here as far as reciprocity goes.
    Fl you need a safety course (hunters, or CWP)
    Cost is about $100 depending on what kind of fingerprints you get and what they charge for them (electronic vs old style)
    It takes ???????????????? That is the million dollar question. They say it can take up to 90 days, but I know right now it is taking longer. I sent my renewal a while back and it took almost 90 days to get back.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    It takes ???????????????? That is the million dollar question. They say it can take up to 90 days, but I know right now it is taking longer. I sent my renewal a while back and it took almost 90 days to get back.
    Wow Corey....
    We must have better bureaucrats than you....even though they say to allow 60 days for the permit arrival....I have always received mine within two weeks.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I'm not sure what kind of statistics you are asking for or whether there is any reliable source for such information. There are lots of databases on state by state carry laws and reciprocity agreements. PA doesn't do very well in getting its permits tobe accepted by other states. The one interesting set of data I came across (can't vouch for the quality) comes from http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/...ith-carry.html. It summarizes the percentage of the population with carry permits:

    Percent of Adults with a License to Carry in each Shall Issue State

    7.45% South Dakota
    6.79% Indiana
    6.76% Pennsylvania
    5.23% Connecticut
    5.12% Washington
    4.34% Idaho
    4.10% Utah
    3.86% Oregon
    3.45% Tennessee
    3.15% Alabama
    2.72% Florida
    2.71% Kentucky
    2.67% Wyoming
    2.41% Maine
    2.18% Arkansas
    2.11% Virginia
    1.94% West Virginia
    1.76% Arizona
    1.75% Oklahoma
    1.70% Montana
    1.70% Michigan
    1.62% Texas
    1.39% South Carolina
    1.34% North Dakota
    1.00% North Carolina
    0.86% Mississippi
    0.62% Louisiana
    0.58% Nevada
    0.45% Minnesota
    0.36% Missouri
    0.33% Ohio
    0.20% Colorado
    0.17% New Mexico

    My own experience with my first carry permit, received around 1990, was that it took five minutes to complete the application and I received the permit two weeks later. The permit was a photocopy of a portion of my application and contained no photo. My most recent permit was issued in 2005 and expires in 2010, cost $12, and includes a bad photocopy of my drivers license photo. It took about three minutes to apply for the renewal which arrived in the mail the same week. I have not purchased a new handgun for about three years. However, the last time I did, the total time from when I entered the store to when I left with a loaded pistol in my pocket was about 15 minutes. I showed my drivers license and paid cash. It would be interesting to know how that compares with other's experiences in their states.
    Thanks - I was looking for the statistic that shows crime vs carry. I would have thought there to be more packers than that.

    I'm one of the 5.12% in WA, got it locally, think it cost $25. Found there was something on my record that had existed since I was 18, untrue but still there. When you try to get someone to fess up to posting & eliminate it, bureaucratese takes over. So it took about 90 days & good for 5 years.

    Got the permit for traveling, lots of strange people on the road, have a couple of shotguns around the house for the serious stuff. Would probably carry a shotgun, legal length, if I were in some parts of the country.

    I look at it this way, if I'm somewhere there is not reciprocity I will still defend myself & hire a good lawyer. I generally have little desire to be in states that don't allow defense.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member TCFarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post

    I'm one of the 5.12% in WA, got it locally, think it cost $25.
    The price must have gone up, mine was $50, but only took a month to get. Done at the local sherriff's office, fill out a form and get fingerprinted. Your criminal and mental health background are checked.

    WA recognizes the license from other states if
    1) Your state doesn't issue permits to people under 21
    2) Your state checks mental health and criminal background
    3) Your state allows WA permit holders to carry

    Here is a map that shows where you can carry, and who can carry in your state.

    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html

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