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  1. #11
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post

    anti-American and extreme radical jibberish.
    That is exactly the way I feel about the current administration and Congress!

    Succession will be a big National topic in 2010 no matter how any of us feel about it. Many of us will not be converted to socialist and will resist it.

    If you are looking for treason, you need not look much further than Washington DC.

    Oh, and Thomas Jefferson would be ill if he were alive today to see our out-of-control government in DC.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-30-2009 at 09:06 PM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  2. #12
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    And, Obama accomplished this?

    Of course not.

    But, lets address the issues you brought up and where they are today.

    They way Obama is spending money, to believe that everyone won't being paying substantially more taxes is a pipe dream. How are we going to pay our debts, cover inflation, pay for the TRILLION in pork that Oabma passed off on the previous Congress? Then, there is a trillion in bailout money that the Fed doesn't even know where it went? Now, a government that can't run anything right wants to spend TRILLIONS (don't be fooled by thier accounting because anything the Gov does comes in way over budget) on health care.

    To think that our gun rights are secure is not realistic. This is the most left and looney administration in our history. These people are capable of taking stupidity to new lows.

    Our public educational system has been dysfunctional since busing started in the 1960' Our public schools are more segragated today than in the 60's. No responsible parent is going to send thier children to a public school where they will become a part of the Hip Hop culture, unless they haven't the money for private schooling. The teachers union should be disbanded.

    Welfare is down because they have switched to SS Disablity or Medicare.

    I see the world differently and I've never worn rose-colored glasses.
    Franco,

    I don't think you wear rose colored glasses, but I think you might have forgotten to return the glasses Ray Charles lent you for Halloween. Hyperbole is often an effective rhetorical device: exaggerate to make your point. However, when you begin to confuse those exaggerations with reality, it is a symptom of paranoid delusion. Obama has been President for six months, If he is already turning our country into Cuba then we must have lived in Maoist China when Reagan was President.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Franco,

    I don't think you wear rose colored glasses, but I think you might have forgotten to return the glasses Ray Charles lent you for Halloween. Hyperbole is often an effective rhetorical device: exaggerate to make your point. However, when you begin to confuse those exaggerations with reality, it is a symptom of paranoid delusion. Obama has been President for six months, If he is already turning our country into Cuba then we must have lived in Maoist China when Reagan was President.
    I for one can appreciate a sense of humor. Especially, when politics or religion are discussed.

    Since my last post, I received a money solicitation call from my state's Republican committee.

    Here's the call;

    Hello Mr. -----, I'm,-----------with the La. Republican Committee. May I ask you what you feel is the most important issue facing our country today? I replied, out of control spending is #1. She says, you are so correct sir (she would have said correct, no matter what I said). Can we count on you for Xdollars. I said, hell no. I don't want my money going to the reelection campaign of David Vitter and until the Republicans can demonstrate that they have it together, I'll hold on to my cash. Then after along pause, she says, well I'm sorry you feel that way but we need contributions to help Conservatives get elected. I said, when you find some, let me know. I then hung up.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-30-2009 at 09:35 PM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  4. #14
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Our taxes are at their lowest levels in 70 years.
    This percentage you quote probably dosn't include gas taxes paid at the pump, alcohol taxes, cigarette tax, taxes on phone bills, state taxes that have increased because of fed. cuts, etc, etc.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  5. #15
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    It's funny. So many decry the 'entitlement mentality', but aren't we all guilty of it to some degree. We want our infrastucture. Roads, bridges, airports, public lands, schools, police, fire, border, and military protection, etc. We want our medicare and social security and military retirement, and VA benefits, orphans and widows benefits, and disabilty allowances, and Cola increases to all. How are these to be paid for and supported? Taxes?
    Used to be, the Fed budget and many states were supported by fees, tariffs and duties, paid by business corporations as a part of their license to conduct business and make a profit. While US corporations still pay some taxes, the tax code has gradually shifted the burden from the company to the consumer.
    Ask yourself, how has this happened? Is it maybe because we keep electing those who serve other masters than ourselves? Regardless of party?
    As my old friend Billy Boggs used to say to me, "When you point a finger at someone, remember...three point back at you."

    Off for a few days to the NM high country.
    Living large and proudly liberal regards,

    Hugh (JDogger)
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #16
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    That is exactly the way I feel about the current administration and Congress!

    Succession will be a big National topic in 2010 no matter how any of us feel about it. Many of us will not be converted to socialist and will resist it.

    If you are looking for treason, you need not look much further than Washington DC.

    Oh, and Thomas Jefferson would be ill if he were alive today to see our out-of-control government in DC.
    Secession will be big talk among anti-American radicals, I'm sure. But not in any proud American circles. We deal with discontent in our gov't by democratic elections, not be secession when we don't get our way. We tried that once, remember? I believe it was called the Civil War. I'm sure there's plenty of Al Qeada and Taliban that would cheer on any groups that want to sever the USA.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  7. #17
    Member txbadger's Avatar
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    Yardley: "Those are the people who threaten our heritage: "

    Really??? Kinda like JFK when he said ".. ask not what your Country can do for you .."?


    Yardley: "The number of families on welfare has dropped 50% and the average cash grant for those on welfare has declined as well"

    Care to cite a source? The most recent article I found shows an increase: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562449457235503.html .... and I'm not sure shifting welfare payments to unemployment benefits is a net reduction. That aside, making <$400/month forces me to wonder how they survive?


    Yardley said: "Our national debt doubled between early 2001 and the end of 2008, and has gone up 10% in 2009."

    Lemme see 10% in 6 months = 20%, at the least, in 12 months which = doubling the underlying in 3.6 years.


    "On the other hand, the median income in the country has declined over the last 20 years as income and wealth has been redistributed to a smaller and smaller percentage of the population."

    Per the Census folks from 1989 to 2005 median income rose, see page 4: http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-228.pdf

    And let's not forget all those rich folks making over 35k/year, about 50% of the population, are paying 97% of the taxes. So what are the other 50% of the people living on....?

    Yardley said: "The percentage of the population without health insurance has increased dramatically over the last eight years"

    Source? Let's not forget the Kaiser study which shows 15% of the population is without insurance, thereby 85% do. And of that 15% 49% are under age 34 & it's unknown if they want it.

    Yardley said: "The pendulum has swung very far in one direction -- to the right -- for a long time."

    40 years of frustration, eh? How is that war on poverty going?

    Yardley said: "Our taxes are at their lowest levels in 70 years."

    Not sure if you're just addressing income tax but if so; in 1989 the highest quintile paid 25.2 & latest data from the Census is 2005 and it was 25.5. Meanwhile the lowest quintile went from 8.5% down to 4.3%. Which means if you're in the lowest you're right and if you're in the highest they're effectively the same.
    Source: http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=8885

  8. #18
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I for one can appreciate a sense of humor. Especially, when politics or religion are discussed.

    Since my last post, I received a money solicitation call from my state's Republican committee.

    Here's the call;

    Hello Mr. -----, I'm,-----------with the La. Republican Committee. May I ask you what you feel is the most important issue facing our country today? I replied, out of control spending is #1. She says, you are so correct sir (she would have said correct, no matter what I said). Can we count on you for Xdollars. I said, hell no. I don't want my money going to the reelection campaign of David Vitter and until the Republicans can demonstrate that they have it together, I'll hold on to my cash. Then after along pause, she says, well I'm sorry you feel that way but we need contributions to help Conservatives get elected. I said, when you find some, let me know. I then hung up.
    There's something we can agree on!

    I was interrupted during office hours by a call from Rep. Tom Price's office, requesting me to serve as a "healthcare reform consultant". Listened to a very convincing taped message from dear Rep. Price, then his secretery came back on, gave a little pep talk, then swiftly solicited me for $500 minimum donation. I said "hell no". She said, "oh, many doctors find it easier to give lesser amounts, of say, 400 or 300".

    That's when i informed her that from my take on watching national politics, the gov't gives obscene fees (kickbacks) to "consultants", such as Randy Duke Cunningham, not the other way around, and that it is insulting and a waste of my patient's time, to masquerate this thinly veiled solicitation as legitimate concern for American healthcare reform.

    Politicians are all a bunch of whores.

    In the 90s we ushered in the new Republican congress....seemed GREAT for a while, then the same old crap....

    In '06 we were gonna have change for the people......same ol' crap!

    In '08, Change we can believe in......he we go again.

    In '10 and '12, I doubt we'll have sweeping change, but probably a shift in balance, and let me go out on a limb and predict.........SAME OL' CRAP!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #19
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post
    Yardley: "Those are the people who threaten our heritage: "

    Really??? Kinda like JFK when he said ".. ask not what your Country can do for you .."?
    ??? I said that the ones threatening our freedoms were those willing to throw out democracy when they disagreed with the vote. How is that related to JFK's inaugural?

    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post
    Yardley: "The number of families on welfare has dropped 50% and the average cash grant for those on welfare has declined as well"

    Care to cite a source? The most recent article I found shows an increase: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562449457235503.html .... and I'm not sure shifting welfare payments to unemployment benefits is a net reduction. That aside, making <$400/month forces me to wonder how they survive?
    When Clinton became President there were about 14 million welfare recipients. That number had declined to about 11 million by the time welfare reform was passed under Clinton in 1996. By 2007, the number was under 4 million. Since 2007, the number has increased as a result of the recession as indicated in the WSJ story, but by an amount that does not even begin to offset the earlier declines. Since national statistics have not been published since 2007, I only said the decline was 50%. As of 2007, the decline from the beginning of the Clinton administration was actually over 70%. (See, for example, http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-welfare_N.htm). By the way, that decline is much greater than the increase in unemployment beneficiaries since the beginning of the recession.

    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post
    Yardley said: "Our national debt doubled between early 2001 and the end of 2008, and has gone up 10% in 2009."

    Lemme see 10% in 6 months = 20%, at the least, in 12 months which = doubling the underlying in 3.6 years.
    Are you assuming that another stimulus bill equal to or larger than the last one is going to be passed in the next few months? That is the only reason the deficit grew so rapidly. The annual deficit at the close of the Bush administration was about a trillion dollars, including an ongoing budget deficit of $700 billion plus the potion of the TARP program spent in 2008. Obama added the stimulus program and has proposed a budget including a deficit comparable to that passed on by Bush. If Obama is reelected, remains President until 2012, and lives within the budget framework he presented to Congress, we will end up with an increase in the deficit comparable to that given to us by Bush. Personally, I would consider that to be outrageous.

    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post
    "On the other hand, the median income in the country has declined over the last 20 years as income and wealth has been redistributed to a smaller and smaller percentage of the population."

    Per the Census folks from 1989 to 2005 median income rose, see page 4: http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-228.pdf

    And let's not forget all those rich folks making over 35k/year, about 50% of the population, are paying 97% of the taxes. So what are the other 50% of the people living on....?
    Actually, between 1989 and 2006, per capita median income in constant dollars increased about 8%. It went down about 1.3% between 2006 and 2007, before the official beginning of the recession. We won't know the final 2008 numbers until later this year or the final 2009 numbers until 2010. However, based on prior recessions, and based on economic results since 2007, I suspect we will see at best a flat per capita median income in constant dollars. See http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf.


    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post

    Yardley said: "The percentage of the population without health insurance has increased dramatically over the last eight years"

    Source? Let's not forget the Kaiser study which shows 15% of the population is without insurance, thereby 85% do. And of that 15% 49% are under age 34 & it's unknown if they want it.
    According to the Census Bureau, there were 38.4 million uninsured in 2000 and 45.7 million uninsured in 2007 (see http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf). General estimates are that the number of uninsured has ballooned with the recession.

    Quote Originally Posted by txbadger View Post
    Yardley said: "The pendulum has swung very far in one direction -- to the right -- for a long time."

    40 years of frustration, eh? How is that war on poverty going?

    Yardley said: "Our taxes are at their lowest levels in 70 years."

    Not sure if you're just addressing income tax but if so; in 1989 the highest quintile paid 25.2 & latest data from the Census is 2005 and it was 25.5. Meanwhile the lowest quintile went from 8.5% down to 4.3%. Which means if you're in the lowest you're right and if you're in the highest they're effectively the same.
    Source: http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=8885
    Under Eisenhower, the maximum income tax rate was about 90%. What is it now?

    In 1967, the bottom 60% of the population received 32.1% of personal income. In 2007 they received 26.9% of income. With respect to overall "equity" of income distribution (not a concept I necessarily agree with), the US evidences a bias towards the wealthy radically greater than almost any developed nation and on par with some of the most inequitable governments. The index (called the GINI index) has shifted fairly strongly over the last 40 years towards greater bias to the wealthy. (see for example https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2172.html and http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf) Not very good evidence of some great move towards socialism as seems to be the implication of Franco's comments and the comments of the right wing blogdom.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 07-31-2009 at 09:02 AM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    As a combat veteran who fought for the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, (including Texas, Alaska, Louisiana, and Oklahoma) and the people who live there, I am sickened and offended by that treasonous drivel of secession. What a SHAME it comes from someone who quotes Jefferson in their autograph line. If you want to "start hearing talk of [succession]", don't call yourself an American in front of me please. Thankfully, I realize you don't represent the many good people of those states, who consider such talk anti-American and extreme radical jibberish.
    dnf, there is a HUGE difference between "secession" and "succession." Maybe Franco is more concerned about who's coming next as opposed to states withdrawing from the Union.....

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

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