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Thread: Obamacare, Brave New World revisited

  1. #61
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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  2. #62
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Your first questions can be looked at different ways. Let me ask you this to answer your question. The banking industry has merged from hundreds if not thousands of independent banks into just a handful of large conglomerates "too big to fail", right? Are they not raping profits from us? What about insurance industry? What about defense contractors? Lockheed, Martin, Marietta, Boeing, Northrup, Grumman.....I think they're now merged into Boeing and LMM, two giants representing around a dozen former independent companies.

    If all the other companies failed, then I would see your point. But if they have been bullied out of the market, or into a merger aquisition by a monopolizing company, they I wouldn't say that supports the argument that it's not a profitable market.

    As for your second point regarding end of life issues, this is a very personal, delicate subject. The fact is, there ARE decisions that need to be made. WHERE to draw the line is the issue. I don't think anyone would argue with denying a 103 year old with renal failure, liver failure, and heart disease a heart transplant??? That's one extreme we can all probably agree upon, without debate. The other is a retired 65 year old who needs hip surgery to relive pain. Again, another example at the other end of the spectrum, with little debate. The problem arises with say an 80 year old, who's spouse, all the doctors, and patients' friends agree has reached the "end of the line" and would wish NOT to be kept alive by artificial means. Then comes the long, lost son out of the woodwork, threatening to sue if dear ol' Dad (who he hasn't seen in 40 years) is taken off life-support. Guess what, that person will now spend more in futile care to be kept alive for another week or two, because of defensive medicine, then they've spent their entire life.

    I'm not saying what is right or wrong, but please don't think the big insurance companies will be your guardian angel when YOU start racking up big bills in the sunset years! THAT would take a LOT of kool-aid!
    You are correct that several companies have merged (probably with hopes of administering a national plan) but many companies just stoped writing anything but the profitable lines i.e life, dental and disability income -lines which have little or no government mandates. They didn't fail they just had all they could stand. They could not make a profit.

    As far as end of life decisions, it's certainly not the governments place to be involved in this.

    As far as companies not being guardian angels when you start having bills, they can't terminate an individual nor run an individual off with rate increases because of their health.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=YardleyLabs;482918]While it is likely that end of life care is more expensive than it should be, I don't think the cost come anywhere close to 80%, Even under Medicare, spending per person in the last year of life is only about 3-4 times more expensive than spending on beneficiaries who are not in the last year of their lives. While many studies indicate that uniform standards and counseling on advance planning directives would significantly reduce costs, the savings would still be a small percentage of health care expenditures.

    End of life expenses are not limited to people on medicare and those in the position to "plan". They are incurred by everyone dying regardless of age hence the greater costs during the last few days of life.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    M&K
    As far as companies not being guardian angels when you start having bills, they can't terminate an individual nor run an individual off with rate increases because of their health.
    I'm glad you mentioned this. Several people mentioned rates increasing after onset of a disease. It's been a while since I was in the life/health insurance business, but I did not think they could do this. As long as you kept paying your premiums, your coverage continued as before.

    However, I think it is "allowed" for health insurance companies to raise premiums as you age; or for basic rates of the company to increase periodically. My own rates have increased annually. Since I have had no health problems of any significance, I would have to attribute the increase to overall increases applied to all participants, or to my increasing age.

    You might say that "The Blues" were among the first to offer "universal" health insurance. I don't know if it still exists, but they used to have one month, once a year, for "open enrollment". Anyone could sign up regardless of health conditions.

    In my own case, originally I was covered by a Blue plan by my employer. When my company went out of existence, I was able to "convert" to an individual policy. The same held true for all employees. In fact, the company originally selected Blue coverage for this very reason ... so employees could continue coverage even if they were to leave that company. When "converting" to individual coverage, there were no forms to fill out except to notify Blue that you were converting. At the time, the premiums for individual coverage were only slightly higher than within the group plan (the company in question only had about a dozen employees so was not getting extremely low rates).
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    I thought some would like to know I saw people protesting health care reform in Chicago today. On my way home I even saw people in the burbs which really got my attention. Besides Union pickets and W haters from the 04 election I haven't seen people gather on a suburban corner since the days after 9/11/01. It's not common to see this here

  6. #66
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    M&K, and Gerry,
    Insurance companies must certainly CAN pull policies. This happens every day. Maybe they can't outright raise premiums, but they sure do drop policies. I see it in my practice all the time. There are more tricks in their books to deny payment than there are stars in the sky.

    The gov't in not involved in end of life decisions. These "death panels" that Mrs. Palin refers to are nothing but payments to physicians who take the time out of their day to discuss living wills and advanced directives with patients and their families. If a lawyer sits down with a family for an hour, they get paid for it. Why shouldn't physicians? If a lawyer counsels a family regarding estate planning and wills, is it called a "death panel"? Is the elderly member being told by a jurist how they must legally die? Of course not. That is a scare tactic, and unfortunately in a gullible population, it is politically effective, and being exploited.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  7. #67
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Just say NO to osamacare and freebies for illegals

    http://thehill.com/op-eds/healthcare...009-08-03.html
    Bob Gutermuth
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  8. #68
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=dnf777;484148]M&K, and Gerry,
    Insurance companies must certainly CAN pull policies. This happens every day. Maybe they can't outright raise premiums, but they sure do drop policies. I see it in my practice all the time. There are more tricks in their books to deny payment than there are stars in the sky.

    No they can not. For example, the only way a company can cancel an individual policy in a state is to cancel the entire block of like policies they have in that state. They can cancel for non payment of premium but not single an individual out for their condition or losses.

    Having said that, there are misleading products or products with inside limits and restrictions that are unfortunately marketed to people via television advertising, salaried representatives or newspaper ads that do not always explain "the fine print". That's where people get hurt by not buying from (and, yes , paying more) from a legitimate company with the help of an professional insurance agent.
    Last edited by M&K's Retrievers; 08-14-2009 at 12:39 AM.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member pat addis's Avatar
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    i called my representive to ask some questions and while i could not talk to him or any one else who seemed to know any thing. so here are some questions i would like to have anwsered. 1-what happens if in 5 years it doesn't work? 2-will it cover non citizens? 3-when it passes and they put 47 million people on it where are they going to get doctors?are they going to just make doctors take them which will mean that every on else will have a hard time trying to see a doctor ? please some one address these questions. and feel free to add more.

  10. #70
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    I have one.

    Could someone please show me the list of all the people that have been denied healthcare and died as a result of the denial of it in the last year?
    2 years??
    5 years?????

    That's what I thought!!
    Stan b & Elvis

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