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Thread: Obamacare, Brave New World revisited

  1. #81
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Hell thats a no brainer. I'll take life and worry about the rest later. They can't take my house, one horse, my wife and I doubt they want the dogs. People in this country cannot be denied care. Paying for that care is another matter but it beats the alternative.
    Well, this has come full circle then. You'd take the treatment, and let the rest of us pay for it, in other words! There is a recurring theme in this argument that I keep pointing out. Rather than debate the merits and facts of reform, the pro-insurance company crowd frames the entire complex debate in "black and white" terms, making it really easy to support their side. The gentleman I referred to was not give such a B&W choice. He was not told "die or go to the ER". He was told it might be life threatening. Now, how much is it worth to find out? ER visit is minimum $800, if nothing is wrong. If you knew it was life-threatening, even with a $10,000 hospitalization, yes, I would go too. But what if it's not? In his case it wasn't, and he saved a bundle. I don't think that in the richest, best country in the world, someone who's worked and payed taxes all their life should have to make such decisions at 1 in the morning, just because his factory fell victom to the recession.

    Really, listen to the rhetoric...."keep things the same, or DEATH SQUADS will appear at your door!" "keep things the same or you'll be paying for every illegal alien in the world!" "over 55, and you're not worth keeping alive!"

    But my favorite quote of all, coming from a protester, "I DON'T WANT GOVERNMENT COMING BETWEEN ME AND MY MEDICARE!!"

    Lets keep the debate in bounds, with real facts, real concerns, and real solutions to the problems. Not scare tactics drummed up by industry-supported lobbyists and PR firms. (or, to be fair, industry supported advertisements in favor of Obama's plan, heavily laden with pharma provisions!)
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  2. #82
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    (or, to be fair, industry supported advertisements in favor of Obama's plan, heavily laden with pharma provisions!)
    From the NY Times today:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/15/us...html?th&emc=th

    WASHINGTON — Dick Armey, the former House Republican leader, has quit his job with the lobbying firm DLA Piper amid complaints from its drug company clients about his work opposing President Obama’s health care overhaul.
    Skip to next paragraph Brendan Smialowski/Getty Images
    Dick Armey

    His departure is the latest example of the confusing entanglements arising from the health care debate.

    To review the facts of this case: the drug companies who helped defeat the Clinton administration health care effort 15 years ago have now turned on Mr. Armey, who then was one of their most important Congressional allies. Now, having cut a deal with this administration to limit their share of the costs, the drug companies are on the other side. Foreseeing new profits from the expansion of health coverage, they are spending as much as $150 million on advertisements to support the president’s plan.
    Originally Mr. O was in favor of negotiating better pricing from the pharma companies, but he's willing to give in on that in order to pass his health care baby. Not to mention the fact that O is on a regular "campaign trail" when his attention might better be given to other important issues of international affairs, etc.

    There are improvements we can make in health care/insurance that could be made now without the rest of the albatross to weigh down things that both parties could readily support. One example would be the portability feature. Without the rest of the omnibus bill, both parties could support portability. As mentioned before, that was available with The Blues 18 years ago! If they could do it then & it has since disappeared, this is something that could be done again.
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  3. #83
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Gerry, first of all, don't be so reasonable--it gets people all befuddled.

    Second, I hadn't seen that article--thanks.
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  4. #84
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Well, this has come full circle then. You'd take the treatment, and let the rest of us pay for it, in other words!

    provisions!)
    No, I wouldn't. I've always had coverage and as a self empoyed individual I still maintain coverage. My point is that no one in this country has to do without treatment and yes we all pay for it in the form of higher premiums which is reflected in part to providers passing the uncollectable charges on to those that have coverage.

    The current system is not perfect but the crap they are trying to push down our throats is not the answer. Not even close.
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  5. #85
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Maybe the concept of a "government option" will be replaced with a "cooperative" model. I think that was what The Blues were supposed to be originally.

    http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/hea...mo_code=8574-1

    AP story reported by Newsmax (conservative publication)

    I think the "lesson" learned with Blue Cross/Shield, if they did start as a "cooperative", was that eventually you simply have to "pay the piper". Even a non-profit needs a profit on its product to remain functioning (covering administrative costs).

    If this is the path chosen, then govt should set about cleaning up the fraud, over-charging, etc. with Medicare. O has said that Medicare will go bankrupt & made it sound like soon, so they better work on that pretty quick.

    The insurance industry, doctors and hospitals should get together to find out how they can control costs without impairing quality care. This whole furor over a govt plan should have given everyone a wake-up call about taking constructive action.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  6. #86
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    What happened to Did Not Finish 777?
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  7. #87
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    In a nutshell, this excercise, just like all of "the Obama's" efforts, are about redistributing wealth!!

    Take money from those that have it and GIVE it to those who don't!!

    end of story!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    If socialized medicine is so far ahead of what we have now, why didn't Teddy Kennedy go to Canada for treatment?
    Because he is not a Canadian citizen

  9. #89
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    No, I wouldn't. I've always had coverage and as a self empoyed individual I still maintain coverage.

    Have you thought about what might happen if you got sick, couldn't work, couldn't pay your premiums, and your insurance got canceled?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  10. #90
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Have you thought about what might happen if you got sick, couldn't work, couldn't pay your premiums, and your insurance got canceled?

    Under "the Obama's" plan, we will just take the wealth from someone according to what he has and redistribute it to someone else, according to what he needs!!
    Stan b & Elvis

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