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Thread: Oh the Hypocracy

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    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Default Oh the Hypocracy

    BHO's 2004 comments

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOnYn...layer_embedded

    Tell me again why this is different ??????
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    BHO's 2004 comments

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOnYn...layer_embedded

    Tell me again why this is different ??????
    ummmm...he is half black and may or may not have been born here
    Other than that........I don;t klnow
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Bueller........ Bueller






    Anyone anyone ??????? Why is not OK to rush legislation before but now we HAVE TO
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    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    The fact is that both sides attempt to control the legislative calendar to benefit their own legislative objectives. For those in the weaker position, delay is the best option to buy time to gain strength. For those in the stronger position, speed is important to take advantage of that strength before it begins to erode. Sometimes, speed is used in periods of near hysteria to ram action through with little or no review by anyone. That was, for example, the case with the Patriot Act in 2001. In other cases, speed is simply an illusion. That is normally the case with budget bills which are negotiated detailed line by line over a period of months before they are presented for a vote. These bills are normally hundreds (even thousands) of pages long with the final version negotiated in the last hours prior to passage. However, the lack of reading time is an illusion. Those bills have been read over and over wit only negotiated changes in the last hours. If voting were delayed for three more days, there would simply be three more days of change resulting in a bill that was still only produced in its final form hours before the vote. The issues on health reform have nothing to do with whether or not people have read the bill. In fact, the most recent version of the house bill agreed to yesterday by the "Blue Dogs" has not even been drafted yet. And when a final bill reaches a vote -- whenever that may be -- it will contain changes agreed to in the 24 hours prior to the vote and those in the weaker position will be calling for delay, calling the rush to judgment irresponsible.

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    Member txbadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The fact is that both sides attempt to control the legislative calendar to benefit their own legislative objectives. For those in the weaker position, delay is the best option to buy time to gain strength. For those in the stronger position, speed is important to take advantage of that strength before it begins to erode. Sometimes, speed is used in periods of near hysteria to ram action through with little or no review by anyone. That was, for example, the case with the Pork Bill of 2009. In other cases, speed is simply an illusion. That is normally the case with budget bills which are negotiated detailed line by line over a period of months before they are presented for a vote. These bills are normally hundreds (even thousands) of pages long with the final version negotiated in the last hours prior to passage. However, the lack of reading time is an illusion. Those bills have been read over and over wit only negotiated changes in the last hours. If voting were delayed for three more days, there would simply be three more days of change resulting in a bill that was still only produced in its final form hours before the vote. The issues on health reform have nothing to do with whether or not people have read the bill. In fact, the most recent version of the house bill agreed to yesterday by the "Blue Dogs" has not even been drafted yet. And when a final bill reaches a vote -- whenever that may be -- it will contain changes agreed to in the 24 hours prior to the vote and those in the weaker position will be calling for delay, calling the rush to judgment irresponsible.
    *********

    Fixed it for you

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    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    They don't need to change the health care bill, they need to torpedo the whole thing.
    Bob Gutermuth
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    ROLL TIDE!

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    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The fact is that both sides attempt to control the legislative calendar to benefit their own legislative objectives. For those in the weaker position, delay is the best option to buy time to gain strength. For those in the stronger position, speed is important to take advantage of that strength before it begins to erode. Sometimes, speed is used in periods of near hysteria to ram action through with little or no review by anyone. That was, for example, the case with the Patriot Act in 2001. In other cases, speed is simply an illusion. That is normally the case with budget bills which are negotiated detailed line by line over a period of months before they are presented for a vote. These bills are normally hundreds (even thousands) of pages long with the final version negotiated in the last hours prior to passage. However, the lack of reading time is an illusion. Those bills have been read over and over wit only negotiated changes in the last hours. If voting were delayed for three more days, there would simply be three more days of change resulting in a bill that was still only produced in its final form hours before the vote. The issues on health reform have nothing to do with whether or not people have read the bill. In fact, the most recent version of the house bill agreed to yesterday by the "Blue Dogs" has not even been drafted yet. And when a final bill reaches a vote -- whenever that may be -- it will contain changes agreed to in the 24 hours prior to the vote and those in the weaker position will be calling for delay, calling the rush to judgment irresponsible.


    So which Obama is right ? I guess I am confussed.

    The reason why bills are rushed thru is so that the public will not have time to comment. Pointing out what kind of crap is in one of these things after the fact is pointless. They are hardley ever rolled back and the machine just gets bigger.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    So which Obama is right ? I guess I am confussed.

    The reason why bills are rushed thru is so that the public will not have time to comment. Pointing out what kind of crap is in one of these things after the fact is pointless. They are hardley ever rolled back and the machine just gets bigger.
    Not have time to comment?!?!?!?!?!

    Few bills in the last decade have had as much discussion as the health care reform bills. Reportedly, over $50 million has been spent on TV ads in just the last few weeks. Hearings have been held in three different House committees and in the senate on almost a weekly basis for the last few months. Obama has held daily "town meetings" around the country with daily Republican responses, both broadcast almost continuously on TV and reported in the daily press.

    The issue is not lack of discussion....

    On the question of quality of discussion, there are different issues.

    For example, what is the cost of the proposed program? Anyone watching the news knows that the proposed program will cost more than $1 trillion over ten years according to CBO estimates. Right?

    Not really. If you actually read the CBO report, the story is a little different. The bill includes costs, but it also contains a mix of cost containment and revenue components as well. In fact, the CBO estimate is that in the three years from 2010 through 2012, implementation of the program would actually reduce the Federal deficit by $49 billion. Over the ten year period, it is estimated the program would increase the cumulative deficit by about $230 billion assuming that none of the attempts to improve preventive care or improve the efficiency of medical services generate any savings at all. Why aren't any of those numbers being reported?

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    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    I see what you did there Jeff. Good show changing the point of the thread like that... GOOD show!
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Not have time to comment?!?!?!?!?!

    Few bills in the last decade have had as much discussion as the health care reform bills. Reportedly, over $50 million has been spent on TV ads in just the last few weeks. Hearings have been held in three different House committees and in the senate on almost a weekly basis for the last few months. Obama has held daily "town meetings" around the country with daily Republican responses, both broadcast almost continuously on TV and reported in the daily press.

    The issue is not lack of discussion....

    On the question of quality of discussion, there are different issues.

    For example, what is the cost of the proposed program? Anyone watching the news knows that the proposed program will cost more than $1 trillion over ten years according to CBO estimates. Right?

    Not really. If you actually read the CBO report, the story is a little different. The bill includes costs, but it also contains a mix of cost containment and revenue components as well. In fact, the CBO estimate is that in the three years from 2010 through 2012, implementation of the program would actually reduce the Federal deficit by $49 billion. Over the ten year period, it is estimated the program would increase the cumulative deficit by about $230 billion assuming that none of the attempts to improve preventive care or improve the efficiency of medical services generate any savings at all. Why aren't any of those numbers being reported?


    When I say not have time to comment I am speaking that every day someone is pointing something bad out. Depending on which version of news media you are getting the info from it goes from a utopian system that eveyone has coverage and it will save money to the other side that is killing old people or leaving them without care and going down the road to socialism. I would love to see historical data that the government ran something that was of equal value and saved money. Heck I would be happy to see it withen its original budget.


    My original post showed that BHO is a hypocryte because he was speaking about a bill he opposed and should be slowed. When its his baby he wants it done yesterday. I will be happy to find his words on in print or audio but I am sure you have heard them. The merrits of this bill can be discussed elswhere.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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