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Thread: pondering,the ugly side of our game

  1. #1
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    Default pondering,the ugly side of our game

    now you may have looked in on this post and think 'here we go another newbie that thinks ecollars,crops,force fetch etc.,how terrible,how can you treat animals that way!"

    i assure you ive been around long enough and thanks to sites like this and access to the proper info out there i have a firm under standing of the proper and humane application of applying pressure and how the above mentioned tools of the are useful tools of the trade.thankyou rex [a true idol]

    why do some of us train dogs,there is all kinds of reasons and motivations,for some it is a living as well as a passion.i think this is great,to earn money at something you enjoy to do,i can only hope that some day i may be in a position to do so myself so please do not read any sarcasm into my above statements

    seems to me that in any activity that creates a money flow for those legit,reputable ventures out there,there will be those who see it as an oppertunity to make an easy buck at other's expenses.to just dupe and exploite the naivety of others for their own gain

    unfortunately our game has not been spared this.puppies are bought with intentions to be trained and then resold/flipped or fast tract through a program with thoughts of coming up with the next 'lean mac' and getting washed out when they are not making the grade.there is nothing wrong with this if it is legit.there are many dogs washed out of pro programs and amature too. that make a fantastic hunting dawg,but some of these dogs are not at all what they are represented to be to a prospective buyer.they have major issues,wether it be from some very heavy handed training coupled with a very soft dog or as some may know a tuff yet sensitive dog that just becomes a basket case in the field and a myriad of other senerios[i could on]

    who do these dogs get sold to.to the people with the least amount of knowledge and abilities to even begin to deal with the issues.face it,those of us who recognize a dog going out doing the spin-orama on a short 60yd blind and continually popping or can see the dog turning on a sit whistle ears down tail tucked because it's feeling so much pressure is not going to pay the 2000,4000,or even 6000 dollar price tag for this these dogs.only the newbie who was impressed because he finally got him there and who is looking to play the game with a so called started dog or that person that doesn't have the time to train a dog but wants a decent hunting dog for those times he can get out.

    yes these people eventually show up at your training session or some clubs training day seeking help because this great dog they bought won't go or now won't pick up a bird etc.

    now i really look forward to the responses to this thread[heck i hope people will read it]LOL

    i just hope no ones responds with a "they should have did their home work" or 'if they are that stupid they deserved it"

    this stuff just drags our game down
    if it flies it dies

  2. #2
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    What are you talking about?

    Even a FT/HT washout has a FAR better chance of a bright future and enjoyable life, than any backyard bred, designer mutt or pet store pup I have ever seen.

    Dogs are happiest, when they have a job to do. Most FT/HT washouts become hunting dogs or service dogs. They don't generally spend the rest of their life bored out of their minds, tied up in a back yard, or getting fat and living on the couch.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Guys/Gals = Folks, OK?

    Folks purchase the best big game rifles ever made, yet only shoot 80-pound deer at 75 yards.
    Folks purchase the best cameras ever made with glass long as your arm, yet only take photos of jr. in the kiddy pool.
    Folks purchase Corvettes, yet still don’t get laid by cheerleaders.

    So why cant folk purchase washed out dogs and struggle and fail and come to club training days?
    The dog is loved, the new handler is trying and learning and maybe or maybe not getting hooked.
    The dog may or may not be screwed up for life. Heck maybe my next dog will be screwed up for life. Or yours, it’s all a crap shoot.

    What was your question again???????
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  4. #4
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Guys/Gals = Folks, OK?

    Folks purchase the best big game rifles ever made, yet only shoot 80-pound deer at 75 yards.
    Folks purchase the best cameras ever made with glass long as your arm, yet only take photos of jr. in the kiddy pool.
    Folks purchase Corvettes, yet still donít get laid by cheerleaders.

    So why cant folk purchase washed out dogs and struggle and fail and come to club training days?
    The dog is loved, the new handler is trying and learning and maybe or maybe not getting hooked.
    The dog may or may not be screwed up for life. Heck maybe my next dog will be screwed up for life. Or yours, itís all a crap shoot.

    What was your question again???????
    wait, wait, WAIT...

    you mean to tell me the damned Vette won't get me laid?

    cash for clunkers, regards...
    Darrin Greene

  5. #5
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Guys/Gals = Folks, OK?

    Folks purchase the best big game rifles ever made, yet only shoot 80-pound deer at 75 yards.
    Folks purchase the best cameras ever made with glass long as your arm, yet only take photos of jr. in the kiddy pool.
    Folks purchase Corvettes, yet still donít get laid by cheerleaders.

    So why cant folk purchase washed out dogs and struggle and fail and come to club training days?
    The dog is loved, the new handler is trying and learning and maybe or maybe not getting hooked.
    The dog may or may not be screwed up for life. Heck maybe my next dog will be screwed up for life. Or yours, itís all a crap shoot.

    What was your question again???????
    Well, if you wore gold chains the corvette works better....

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    What are you talking about?

    Even a FT/HT washout has a FAR better chance of a bright future and enjoyable life, than any backyard bred, designer mutt or pet store pup I have ever seen.

    Dogs are happiest, when they have a job to do. Most FT/HT washouts become hunting dogs or service dogs. They don't generally spend the rest of their life bored out of their minds, tied up in a back yard, or getting fat and living on the couch.
    you missed the point,but agree their lives are much better

    these dogs are not performing the work that they were purchased for and might as well have been some designer breed pet.also i have seen back yard bred dogs perform at a much higher level then the dogs im referring to

    you don't think there are people out there selling dogs with major training issues simply to recoop what they have invested in them and them some. then they can purchase another pup and start over again?

    if you go back and reread my original post over again you will see that i agree that many washouts become great hunting dogs
    if it flies it dies

  7. #7
    Member croppiemstr's Avatar
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    I purchased a dog from a so called back yard breeder. I am newbie, so i didnt know what I was looking for. Well long story short it was the biggest 400.00 dollar mistake I have ever made. Thanks to my two great training partners I made the best 300.00 dollar investment and now have a dog that is doing pretty well with this new game called FT & HT that i have fallen in love with.
    Tim Jones

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Guys/Gals = Folks, OK?

    Folks purchase the best big game rifles ever made, yet only shoot 80-pound deer at 75 yards.
    Folks purchase the best cameras ever made with glass long as your arm, yet only take photos of jr. in the kiddy pool.
    Folks purchase Corvettes, yet still donít get laid by cheerleaders.

    So why cant folk purchase washed out dogs and struggle and fail and come to club training days?
    The dog is loved, the new handler is trying and learning and maybe or maybe not getting hooked.
    The dog may or may not be screwed up for life. Heck maybe my next dog will be screwed up for life. Or yours, itís all a crap shoot.

    What was your question again???????
    who said folks can't purchase washed out dogs?struggle,fail or come to club training days?

    of course the dog is loved and the new handler is trying to learn but with his knowledge is suppose to fix what someone in the know couldn't?

    it's always a crap shoot when purchasing a new puppie.you know the probable outcome when buying an already [screwed up dog and not having a clue on how to unscrew it up]

    glad you brought up the scewed up dog stuff

    what was your point????????????
    if it flies it dies

  9. #9
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict2 View Post
    ....you don't think there are people out there selling dogs with major training issues simply to recoop what they have invested in them and them some. then they can purchase another pup and start over again?......
    No, I don't think the price that will be paid for a washed-out prospect will come anywhere CLOSE, to paying for the time and money that was invested, prior to deciding that the dog wasn't going to complete training.

    On the other hand, a LOT of people will pay $1000, for a made up breed, registered with a fake registry, and no health clearances. That, is how profits are made, at the expense of the dogs.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by croppiemstr View Post
    I purchased a dog from a so called back yard breeder. I am newbie, so i didnt know what I was looking for. Well long story short it was the biggest 400.00 dollar mistake I have ever made. Thanks to my two great training partners I made the best 300.00 dollar investment and now have a dog that is doing pretty well with this new game called FT & HT that i have fallen in love with.
    i want to get to your post sir because i think it is great

    so i take it you got yourself a good hunting buddy for 400 dollars and an additional 300 in training?

    seems you have spent your money wisely

    when did you make this big mistake?
    if it flies it dies

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