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I don't have anything to add to the thread other than to comment on this plot. Anyone trying to make a point with this plot surely must hope his audience is stupid.Originally Posted by Henry V
Seriously? The range of data is from 1960 to 2010? Some of you history buffs, how long has the earth been around?
Like to see the rest of the story regards,
Topform's B-2 Spirit MH
It may not be the absolute rise in CO2, but the rate of increase that is trying to be illustrated. It would be useful to see this in a larger context in any case.
God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!
It would also be interesting to compare it to global average temps over the same period. Then IF there is a direct correlation, we could discuss causation versus coincidence. I'm not informed enough about the issue to decide if it is true or not (and I suspect most are in the same boat), but I don't trust most of what I hear about it from either side, as it seems that everyone has their own agenda to push or is too ignorant to discuss it fully.
What I would like more than anything is for someone to show me how temps have fluctuated over the last few thousand years, show me the corresponding CO2 levels, and then show me the same data for the last couple of hundred years. Show me that CO2 levels go up, causing a rise in global temps and then CO2 levels go down, causing a drop in global temps, and I'm on board. Then prove to me that the reason for the increase in CO2 levels is due to the burning of fossil fuels and that if we decrease our use of fossil fuels that CO2 levels will drop. I'm sorry, but I just can't push the "I believe" button whether you are selling me life everlasting or cap and trade.
By the way, if all the folks who are preaching this stuff stopped exhaling, how much would CO2 levels drop? I mean, come on, what's it worth to you to save the planet?
Matt McKenzie
It takes as long as it takes. Sometimes longer.
"Consecutive mistakes are what build bad habits."
Over the last 400,000 years, CO2 levels ranged from about 200-300 ppm, only going above that level in the 20th century (http://taha.instedd.org/2009/02/atmo...range-red.html) Current levels are at their highest in more than 2 million years. The significance of these numbers if that homo sapiens are only believed to have existed during the last 400,000 to 2,000,000 years. So while the earth may have lots of experience with higher levels in its history, we as a species have not. That at least suggests, to me, that a little caution is warranted when we begin "experimenting" with our atmosphere in ways that may threaten our very existence as a species. That's a much bigger experiment than any proposed changes in health care.
Sean welcome to POTUS Place. Do a search on climate change or global warming and you will find that this topic has been discussed at length. If you are interested in this topic, I suggest you also take a look at http://www.newscientist.com/article/...perplexed.html.
In specific response to your post.I posted the longest running empirical record of atmospheric CO2 concentration to get folks thinking. I actually hope folks look at this data and ask the exact question that you asked and follow-up with their own investigation. If you did want to add something more to this discussion you could do some research and present evidence to support your point of view, whatever that is. Regarding the rest of the story.....
Temperature and CO2 variations in the Vostok ice cores compared with changes in solar irradiance due to orbital variation (Image: US Global Change Research Program)
Last edited by Henry V; 08-07-2009 at 01:17 PM. Reason: misspelled word
Good stuff. So based on the ice cores, temperature, atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and atmospheric Methane change in direct proportion. What caused the peaks and valleys over the last 400,000 years? Is the CO2 to blame for the temp and methane levels? Is the methane to blame for the temp and CO2 levels? Is the temp to blame for the CO2 and methane levels? Or is some other factor or combination of factors to blame for all three? Too many times I get lost in the terminology of the studies, so I need someone to explain it to me in a way that a product of the GA public school system can understand it. How do we KNOW that CO2 is the problem and not one of the symptoms?
Matt McKenzie
It takes as long as it takes. Sometimes longer.
"Consecutive mistakes are what build bad habits."
What ever happened to that hole in the ozone thingy ? I still have the SPF 500 left over
"Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan
Since you asked, check out: http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/What ever happened to that hole in the ozone thingy ? I still have the SPF 500 left over
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/bu...ed=1&th&emc=th
Maybe we won't have to worry about global warming "doing us in" ... dioxin and other contaminants could make CO2 a moot issue.
G.Clinchy@gmail.com
"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim
I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.
There always has to be an optimistic one in the bunch
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