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Thread: I Spy

  1. #11
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/08...-terms-service


    http://www.dot.gov/privacy.html

    Before you play the video of Glenn Beck's latest loonyhttp://www.dot.gov/privacy.html-tunes conspiracy theory, keep in mind that it's totally nuts. Here's the key information debunking it:
    1. If you are a consumer visiting cars.gov (the "cash for clunkers" website) the Federal government cannot take control over your computer, nor will it ask permission to do so.
    1. The "Terms of Use" statement to which Beck refers in this clip is not from cars.gov. Rather it is a login page for dealer transactions located at esc.gov.
    1. The only people who can get login credentials for the esc.gov site are dealers who have been screened and registered for the "cash for clunkers" program.
    1. To summarize: the page in question isn't on cars.gov and can only be used by dealers who have already registered. Consumers won't be impacted by any of this.
    With that out of the way, enjoy the crazy:
    OK, so you are saying that it is fine for our gubmint to monitor private businesses. Check.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  2. #12
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achiro View Post
    OK, so you are saying that it is fine for our gubmint to monitor private businesses. Check.
    Yes, and if the SEC had taken it's charge more seriously and honestly, we wouldn't have just spent billions bailing them out...or sending their execs on luxurious vacations....whatever we did with that money??

    I don't want the gov't running or interfering with private business, but ensuring fair trade and competition is reasonable. That's what gives the small business guy a fair chance. Gov't certainly protects the big corporations, and what's good for them, is good for the small guy.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #13
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achiro View Post
    OK, so you are saying that it is fine for our gubmint to monitor private businesses. Check.
    Yep. If that private business is doing business with the government, you betcha. Medicare and medicaid providers should also be closely monitored. Same goes for non-bidding defense contractors.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  4. #14
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Actually, there's a pretty big difference between monitoring a computer that is connected to a Federal government cash transaction system and monitoring a business. Generally speaking, systems that are permitted to connect with massive financial systems are carefully vetted to be sure that they are not going to become security holes into the system.

    Systems that I have worked with that included such links to financial links have invariably been single purpose machines. They were connected to the external system but were not connected to any internal system. I don't know how the cars application has been designed. However, given that it is used to permit dealers to submit information on a specific clunker and then to receive pre-approval of a $3500-4500 payment from the government, the potential for abuse is very high. Whether the disclosure is simply bureaucratic stupidity or a legitimate warning about an actual surveillance program for ensuring system integrity is not clear. If I saw that warning I would certainly make sure that the computer used contained no other data or applications and tha it was not linked to any of my other computers.

    The fact that Beck has misrepresented the link and the context in which a user is subject to the warning is not surprsing given the source.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    I have an idea, though. Why don't some of us, posing as "constitutional watchdogs," start sending him things to get crazy about on his show? I'm thinking that "Obama is injecting mind-control serum into our nation's meat products" and "sex was invented by Democrats to distract you during the far-left take-over of our government" would be great positive-behavior reinforcing memes. We'd end up with Beck's audience turning vegetarian and not having children. Now that's called making lemonade from lemons, isn't it?
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #16
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Your best bet is to continue believing that all of the "money" that the government is giving away is going to actually help our economy. Talk about a fantasy....

    All cash for clunkers has done is accelerate the purchase cycle for new cars and eliminate thousands of automobiles from being acquired by folks who might need them to replace their own pre-1984 jalopies. Has anyone (the government hasn't, that much is obvious) considered the energy that is going to be used to return these cars to scrap metal? Has anyone considered where this scrap metal will be sent to be "reused?" Has anyone considered the amount of pollution this process will release into our environment? Has anyone considered that while the additional high-mileage cars that are on the road get better gas mileage, they'll be traveling MORE miles than their predecessors, resulting in EXACTLY the same if not MORE fossil-fuel emissions to be released into the environment?

    If the Cap and Trade bill is passed, it won't matter WHAT kind of car you drive....you won't be able to AFFORD the fuel it will take to get from point A to point B.

    Looking forward to Jeff's response to the above regards,

    kg
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  7. #17
    Senior Member brandywinelabs's Avatar
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    Hey, my 94 ranger 4.0L 4x4 didn't qualify for a new model of the same.
    It gets the same EPA as the new ones with out all of the new fuel efficienct add-ons of the new ones. I thought the automakers were improving the fuel mileage.
    So what is this really doing? I can't say here what I really think.........
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  8. #18
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I have an idea, though. Why don't some of us, posing as "constitutional watchdogs," start sending him things to get crazy about on his show? I'm thinking that "Obama is injecting mind-control serum into our nation's meat products" and "sex was invented by Democrats to distract you during the far-left take-over of our government" would be great positive-behavior reinforcing memes. We'd end up with Beck's audience turning vegetarian and not having children. Now that's called making lemonade from lemons, isn't it?
    So what are ya puttin' in the lemonade, JDogger?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #19
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    So what are ya puttin' in the lemonade, JDogger?
    Jes' lemons, they seem to be the "fruit de jour."

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  10. #20
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Your best bet is to continue believing that all of the "money" that the government is giving away is going to actually help our economy. Talk about a fantasy....

    All cash for clunkers has done is accelerate the purchase cycle for new cars and eliminate thousands of automobiles from being acquired by folks who might need them to replace their own pre-1984 jalopies. Has anyone (the government hasn't, that much is obvious) considered the energy that is going to be used to return these cars to scrap metal? Has anyone considered where this scrap metal will be sent to be "reused?" Has anyone considered the amount of pollution this process will release into our environment? Has anyone considered that while the additional high-mileage cars that are on the road get better gas mileage, they'll be traveling MORE miles than their predecessors, resulting in EXACTLY the same if not MORE fossil-fuel emissions to be released into the environment?

    If the Cap and Trade bill is passed, it won't matter WHAT kind of car you drive....you won't be able to AFFORD the fuel it will take to get from point A to point B.

    Looking forward to Jeff's response to the above regards,

    kg


    Huh. Wasn't sure this day would come on an extra-dog topic, but I think I totally agree with Mr. K G, esp. middle paragraph.

    Seems to me I remember a lot of dealers 6 months ago complaining that there were too many used cars out there... Hmmmm....

    You don't suppose that government and business got together on the side and came up with a plan that...




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