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Thread: Actual Health Care bill.....

  1. #21
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Personally, I believe that there are only two possible approaches for controlling this growth. First would be to eliminate all health insurance and let the market take over in full. Thousands might die because of care they do not receive, but I guarantee costs will fall. The alternative is to require universal coverage to force all to feel the pain and then to regulate costs more effectively. Our current costs are not the product of a free market. They are the product of a market where the consumers -- patients and the doctors that oversee their consumption of services -- do not pay the bills. As a result, any care covered by insurance is seen as virtually free and the result is a grotesque level of over-consumption. The providers of care are understandably afraid of what will happen if someone finally starts watching the check book. By the way, when I say providers, doctors are not high on the list. While they used to be kings of the mountain, today they have been reduced to relative serfdom. The real profits lie in "managed care" which is managed only for the benefit of stockholders, pharmaceutical companies, manufacturers of medical equipment, etc.
    I have to believe there are more than 2 options. I have to think serious tort reform would go a long way to alleviate stress on costs.

    And what gives you any confidence whatsoever in the government being able to regulate costs?

    This is precisely the point of all this uproar.....regulating costs. Can you really tell me with a straight face that government regulation of costs is the way to go??!!
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  2. #22
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    Jeff:

    That's a very good analysis. Tell me, if this whole plan can be as succinct and straightforward as you make it, why is the cottonpicking thing a 1000 pages??
    The last time I looked, the laws and regulations governing Medicare and Medicaid ran about 20 feet. My health insurance policy runs about 200 pages in a type font that I can't read even with tri-focals. Part of the problem and one of the things that also makes the program a little less experimental than many believe is that the structure of health coverage programs is very well defined. We have been learning how to write coverage policies since the 1950's and have a pretty good idea of where to find the pitfalls. The downside is that it means that people have learned to make the language specific rather than broad and specificty results in lots of pages.

  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    I have to believe there are more than 2 options. I have to think serious tort reform would go a long way to alleviate stress on costs.

    And what gives you any confidence whatsoever in the government being able to regulate costs?

    This is precisely the point of all this uproar.....regulating costs. Can you really tell me with a straight face that government regulation of costs is the way to go??!!
    A market economy requires a market of buyers and producers that are both at risk financially. The incentives are distorted if either party is protected from financial consequences. In health care there simply is no economic market resulting in massive distortions. This is not a new problem, but it has no easy solutions. What we are doing now is completely broken and the result is costs that are skyrocketing and health outcomes that do not justify the cost. Regulation is not a good substitute for competition. Unfortunately we don't have any.

  4. #24
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    Jeff,

    Do you have existing health issues? What is your age etc?

    I have my own health care insurance policy.

    I pay $160 for one person and have a "break point" (that is what they used to call out of pocket expenses) total of $2600/yr.

    My policy includes prescriptions.

    Why is your policy so expensive?

    A $550 cost per month would be a HUGE increase for me along with a out of pocket expense of $5000/yearly.

    WRL

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE][The whole package is a lie, why else would they be trying to ram it thru congress so quickly. Remember that congress is fulll of lawyers, and you can tell a lawyer is lying cause his lips are moving/QUOTE]

    What I'm trying to figure out is how the hell it took so much thought ,consideration and time to figure out what kind of dog to own,,,,but lets hurry up and run this health bill through by yesterday.

    Pete

  6. #26
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    Jeff,

    Do you have existing health issues? What is your age etc?

    I have my own health care insurance policy.

    I pay $160 for one person and have a "break point" (that is what they used to call out of pocket expenses) total of $2600/yr.

    My policy includes prescriptions.

    Why is your policy so expensive?

    A $550 cost per month would be a HUGE increase for me along with a out of pocket expense of $5000/yearly.

    WRL
    Lee,

    It's a lot cheaper than the $750/month I used to pay. The policy has no maximum limits, includes pharmacy care, has $20/$40 co-pays for physician services, $100/day co-payfor the first five days of hospital coverage, and no deductibles for in-network care ($1000 deductible for out of network). It's a BC/BS PPO policy done through the local chamber of commerce. The one year I hit my max out of pocket was a period when I ran up $65k in bills for two ER visits, three days inpatient care for diagnostic testing, and two ambulatory surgery visits for testing, on top of a variety of outpatient tests.

    I suspect the primary reason for the cost differential is geographic and age (I'm 60) based. If I were 30, the premium would be half what I pay. There are no health condition differentials permitted, but I am definitely in the category that drives up everyone else's costs having consumed well over $100k in medical services in the last three years with a lot more on the horizon.

    Before I canceled our company health insurance plan, the premium for family coverage (2 adults and any number of kids) was over $24,000/year (up 300% in 10 years with a reduction in coverage). I paid the first $500/month, but it hit the point where none of my staff were able to pay their portion of the premium. I canceled the plan, gave the employees the amount I was contributing and watched most of them join the ranks of the uninsured.

  7. #27
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    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ has checked most of the facts in the memo that started this thread at http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...e-distortions/.

    Many of the supposed facts in the memo and many other things being said about the current proposal from the left and right are given their "pants on fire" grade.

  8. #28
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    It's important to remember that whatever is passed is merely enabling legislation....it enables the writing of rules and regulations by the department (HHS). Thus, language that reads "they shall do this" can become 40-50 pages of rules and Congress will have absolutely no say in what is said in these rules without passing an amendment.

    For instance, the requirement for counseling for senior citizens doesn't state how or what they'll be counseled on. It could very easily become counseling on assisted suicide.

    Eric

  9. #29
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    It's important to remember that whatever is passed is merely enabling legislation....it enables the writing of rules and regulations by the department (HHS). Thus, language that reads "they shall do this" can become 40-50 pages of rules and Congress will have absolutely no say in what is said in these rules without passing an amendment.

    For instance, the requirement for counseling for senior citizens doesn't state how or what they'll be counseled on. It could very easily become counseling on assisted suicide.

    Eric
    The full text of the advanced care planning clause that you appear to be referencing is in section 1233 of the original HR 3200 and may be read at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1110yoZNA:e513253:. The terms of that language, which is very specific, address only counseling with resect to actions that an individual may take to specify their wishes with respect to how they will be treated in the event that they are no longer able to direct their own care. The bill does not make that counseling legal -- it already is -- or illegal. All it does is to allow a physician to bill for the service and be reimbursed for the service they are providing.

    As far as I know, assisted suicide, where legal, cannot be addressed through an advanced planning document. That is, you cannot leave an instruction indicating that you should be euthanized in the event that you are in a coma. I would expect, if I lived in a state where assisted suicide were legal, that I would be able to obtain counseling from my physician concerning that option. I doubt that I would care if that service were reimbursed by my insurance or not.

    Ultimately, national health insurance is nothing but insurance. It extends the system for paying for care. It doesn't provide care, it doesn't make care legal, and it doesn't make care illegal notwithstanding hysterical horror stories told by harbingers of doom (aka FOX Network and the relics of the right).

  10. #30
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Lee,

    It's a lot cheaper than the $750/month I used to pay. The policy has no maximum limits, includes pharmacy care, has $20/$40 co-pays for physician services, $100/day co-payfor the first five days of hospital coverage, and no deductibles for in-network care ($1000 deductible for out of network). It's a BC/BS PPO policy done through the local chamber of commerce. The one year I hit my max out of pocket was a period when I ran up $65k in bills for two ER visits, three days inpatient care for diagnostic testing, and two ambulatory surgery visits for testing, on top of a variety of outpatient tests.

    I suspect the primary reason for the cost differential is geographic and age (I'm 60) based. If I were 30, the premium would be half what I pay. There are no health condition differentials permitted, but I am definitely in the category that drives up everyone else's costs having consumed well over $100k in medical services in the last three years with a lot more on the horizon.

    Before I canceled our company health insurance plan, the premium for family coverage (2 adults and any number of kids) was over $24,000/year (up 300% in 10 years with a reduction in coverage). I paid the first $500/month, but it hit the point where none of my staff were able to pay their portion of the premium. I canceled the plan, gave the employees the amount I was contributing and watched most of them join the ranks of the uninsured.
    Now I understand your position on this.
    You've decided to let ME (and others who are gainfully emplyed) help pay for your medical bills!!
    Stan b & Elvis

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