The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 33

Thread: Time Magazine-Top 25 to blame for crisis

  1. #21
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I'm stayin' out of this one, except to comment on the very unfair comparison and blame above. You're comparing firecrackers to atom bombs! Bad as they were, Betsy, Camille, and Aubrey did NOT breach the levies! That is what resulted in the huge loss of life and property. I don't know who's side I took by saying that, that wasn't the point. There is plenty of blame to go around, from the top down...so nobody has to be left out of Katrina. Did Nagin fail? Yes! Did Blanco fail? Yes! But that's where Mr. Bush had a chance to ride in on his white stallion, and take up the slack, and be a true hero. Instead, he ignored his experts, took some photo ops, and left town.

    I don't care who's responsibility it was in the first place, but SOMEBODY should have had potable water dropped in on people PRONTO. It took less than 12 hours after the tsunamis to begin distributing potable water. We looked pathetic in comparison to that. (and we participated in the tsunami relief!) Its no comfort to anyone to see Nagin, Blanco, and Bush in a three-way on tv. That was shameful for republicans, democrats, and anyone else who had anything to do with that CF. Like it or not, when that happens, a true leader takes responsibility. We didn't see that at any level, esp at the top. Crap, I said I was stayin' out. Being involved with the recovery effort, it's hard not to spout a least a little.

    Both Betsy and Camille produced major flooding and loss of huge areas of New Orleans. Camille especially wrecked havoc in the earstern parts of the city and did more damage to southwest Mississippi than Katrina. What we didn't have was all the networks with their satellite gear broadcasting all over the world. The network news didn't have helicoptor footage showing folks stranded on thier roofs. Audry was just as bad in 57 and I can remember water everywhere! Audry, Besty and Camile were Cat 5's, Katrina was barely a Cat 3!

    In regards to drinking water, that is a city and state responsibility. Both were warned in 02 that this was a high probability. They both ignored it!

    P S The U S Coast Guard was evacuating folks within minutes of the huricane passing. Every state law enforcement official with a small flatboard was there right after too. The State National Guard should have been brought in prior to the hurricane but Gov Blanco panicked and could not make decisions. Nagin fled to Dallas for the first 1.5 days after!
    Last edited by Franco; 08-10-2009 at 06:53 PM.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  2. #22
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, MD
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I'm stayin' out of this one, except to comment on the very unfair comparison and blame above. You're comparing firecrackers to atom bombs! Bad as they were, Betsy, Camille, and Aubrey did NOT breach the levies! That is what resulted in the huge loss of life and property. I don't know who's side I took by saying that, that wasn't the point. There is plenty of blame to go around, from the top down...so nobody has to be left out of Katrina. Did Nagin fail? Yes! Did Blanco fail? Yes! But that's where Mr. Bush had a chance to ride in on his white stallion, and take up the slack, and be a true hero. Instead, he ignored his experts, took some photo ops, and left town.

    I don't care who's responsibility it was in the first place, but SOMEBODY should have had potable water dropped in on people PRONTO. It took less than 12 hours after the tsunamis to begin distributing potable water. We looked pathetic in comparison to that. (and we participated in the tsunami relief!) Its no comfort to anyone to see Nagin, Blanco, and Bush in a three-way on tv. That was shameful for republicans, democrats, and anyone else who had anything to do with that CF. Like it or not, when that happens, a true leader takes responsibility. We didn't see that at any level, esp at the top. Crap, I said I was stayin' out. Being involved with the recovery effort, it's hard not to spout a least a little.
    All those people had their chance to get out. They staued behind to loot. Bush cannot just ride in. Their are Constitutional issues that the liberals never signed authority over on. The feds cannot just ride in. Mississipi was struck very hard as well and had much fewer problems.

  3. #23
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    All those people had their chance to get out. They staued behind to loot. Bush cannot just ride in. Their are Constitutional issues that the liberals never signed authority over on. The feds cannot just ride in. Mississipi was struck very hard as well and had much fewer problems.
    Franco,
    Storm categories are based on sustained wind velocity. That is not what kills people. Flood waters do. Again, firecrackers to atom bombs.

    paschal30,
    Easy for you and me to say they had a chance to get out. Do you really think the elderly blacks who have nothing in this world except the shacks they live in, stayed behind to loot? I've never heard anything so inhumane. I've seen those people, and treated them. Many were too proud to even come into a free clinic, except they were carried in. These are people who ran mom-n-pop restaurants (best food in the world), made NOLA jazz, and never made enough money to afford cars or insurance. They trusted God every Sunday as their insurance.

    Again, Mississippi suffered mostly wind damage. That's bad enough, but it is flooding, not winds, that kill people and destroy property. Me and anyone else who grew up on the Gulf Coast knows that. I don't mean to be harsh, but anyone who thinks folks stayed behind in order to loot, is very misinformed or just ignorant of the plight of the indigent New Orleanians. I had enough of the DA sitting in Las Vegas while the storm raged, second-guessing those who stayed behind to help, bringing charges against doctors who worked for free, to tolerate anymore bashing of the good people of New Orleans. Enough is enough.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #24
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, MD
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Franco,
    Storm categories are based on sustained wind velocity. That is not what kills people. Flood waters do. Again, firecrackers to atom bombs.

    paschal30,
    Easy for you and me to say they had a chance to get out. Do you really think the elderly blacks who have nothing in this world except the shacks they live in, stayed behind to loot? I've never heard anything so inhumane. I've seen those people, and treated them. Many were too proud to even come into a free clinic, except they were carried in. These are people who ran mom-n-pop restaurants (best food in the world), made NOLA jazz, and never made enough money to afford cars or insurance. They trusted God every Sunday as their insurance.

    Again, Mississippi suffered mostly wind damage. That's bad enough, but it is flooding, not winds, that kill people and destroy property. Me and anyone else who grew up on the Gulf Coast knows that. I don't mean to be harsh, but anyone who thinks folks stayed behind in order to loot, is very misinformed or just ignorant of the plight of the indigent New Orleanians. I had enough of the DA sitting in Las Vegas while the storm raged, second-guessing those who stayed behind to help, bringing charges against doctors who worked for free, to tolerate anymore bashing of the good people of New Orleans. Enough is enough.
    Let's see. who had days of warning? Who had schools buses not used?
    Local NO government.

    Here is some video of the "aged" looting. God gives you the tools to help yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RVHDlPqZWE
    Last edited by tpaschal30; 08-10-2009 at 07:49 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Let's see. who had days of warning? Who had schools buses not used?
    Local NO government.

    Here is some video of the "aged" looting. God gives you the tools to help yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RVHDlPqZWE
    Don't need to watch videos. I was there. Were you? Or did you just watch Fox News from the comfort of your livingroom?

    Lets just drop this. Unless you see firsthand what those people went through, you're really talking out your a$$. Such lack of human compassion does not encourage discussion.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #26
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Both Betsy and Camille produced major flooding and loss of huge areas of New Orleans. Camille especially wrecked havoc in the earstern parts of the city and did more damage to southwest Mississippi than Katrina. What we didn't have was all the networks with their satellite gear broadcasting all over the world. The network news didn't have helicoptor footage showing folks stranded on thier roofs. Audry was just as bad in 57 and I can remember water everywhere! Audry, Besty and Camile were Cat 5's, Katrina was barely a Cat 3!

    In regards to drinking water, that is a city and state responsibility. Both were warned in 02 that this was a high probability. They both ignored it!

    P S The U S Coast Guard was evacuating folks within minutes of the huricane passing. Every state law enforcement official with a small flatboard was there right after too. The State National Guard should have been brought in prior to the hurricane but Gov Blanco panicked and could not make decisions. Nagin fled to Dallas for the first 1.5 days after!
    If I may, the Coast Guard continued SAR (Search And Rescue) efforts throughout the hurricane where ever they could.
    It is their mission and duty, no questions asked.
    If I am not mistaken (and I am not) they serve under the Dept of Transportation, a Federal Govt. Agency.
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #27
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Franco,
    Storm categories are based on sustained wind velocity. That is not what kills people. Flood waters do. Again, firecrackers to atom bombs.

    paschal30,
    Easy for you and me to say they had a chance to get out. Do you really think the elderly blacks who have nothing in this world except the shacks they live in, stayed behind to loot? I've never heard anything so inhumane. I've seen those people, and treated them. Many were too proud to even come into a free clinic, except they were carried in. These are people who ran mom-n-pop restaurants (best food in the world), made NOLA jazz, and never made enough money to afford cars or insurance. They trusted God every Sunday as their insurance.

    Again, Mississippi suffered mostly wind damage. That's bad enough, but it is flooding, not winds, that kill people and destroy property. Me and anyone else who grew up on the Gulf Coast knows that. I don't mean to be harsh, but anyone who thinks folks stayed behind in order to loot, is very misinformed or just ignorant of the plight of the indigent New Orleanians. I had enough of the DA sitting in Las Vegas while the storm raged, second-guessing those who stayed behind to help, bringing charges against doctors who worked for free, to tolerate anymore bashing of the good people of New Orleans. Enough is enough.

    Your facts are incorrect. The greatest loss of life was Camille followed by Audry. Katrina edge Betsy by less than 200. 180 mile an hour winds killed many people! Then came the flood waters for all four Hurricanes. The old levees that held in the 60's for Betsy and Camille didn't hold for Katrina's surge which wasn't nearly as large as the surges for the 60's hurricanes. The surges for the 60's topped the levees whereas for Katrina they collapsed in areas.

    Again, Blanco should have had the La. National Guard in the city prior to the hurricane. The city was in chaos after with widespread looting and armed thugs shooting at relief workers. It wasn't until the guard was in place and military Huey helicopters had taken thier toll on the armed gangs that the looting, burning and shooting stopped.

    The city and state were warned an took no action. Had the state done thier job along with the citry it wouldn't have been the tragedy it was!
    Last edited by Franco; 08-10-2009 at 08:55 PM.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  8. #28
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Your facts are incorrect. The greatest loss of life was Camille followed by Audry. Katrina edge Betsy by less than 200. 180 mile an hour winds killed many people! Then came the flood waters for all four Hurricanes. The old levees that held in the 60's for Betsy and Camille didn't hold for Katrina's surge which wasn't nearly as large as the surges for the 60's hurricanes. The surges for the 60's topped the levees whereas for Katrina they collapsed in areas.

    Again, Blanco should have had the La. National Guard in the city prior to the hurricane. The city was in chaos after with widespread looting and armed thugs shooting at relief workers. It wasn't until the guard was in plave and military Huey helicopters had taken thier toll on the armed gangs that we looting, burning and shooting.

    The city and state were warned an tok action. Had the state done thier job along with the citry ity wouldn't have been the tragedy it was!
    Nothing you said contradicts what I said. My statements are accurate. Look at fatalities from Hurricanes and you'll understand.

    You can point political fingers all night. Go ahead. My point is that finger pointing doesn't save lives, action does. And we didn't see it quick enough.

    Again, that was a tragedy at many levels. Ultimately, a good leader takes responsibility for things that occur under his watch. It's funny to hear blame placed on city and state officials, when something of this magnitude is obviously of national proportion. MUCH smaller disasters have qualified and benefited from national relief efforts. Like I said earlier, we got potable water to Indonesia quicker than we got it to New Orleans. The handling of Katrina was a national disgrace!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Nothing you said contradicts what I said. My statements are accurate. Look at fatalities from Hurricanes and you'll understand.

    You can point political fingers all night. Go ahead. My point is that finger pointing doesn't save lives, action does. And we didn't see it quick enough.

    Again, that was a tragedy at many levels. Ultimately, a good leader takes responsibility for things that occur under his watch. It's funny to hear blame placed on city and state officials, when something of this magnitude is obviously of national proportion. MUCH smaller disasters have qualified and benefited from national relief efforts. Like I said earlier, we got potable water to Indonesia quicker than we got it to New Orleans. The handling of Katrina was a national disgrace!
    For nearly three days after Katrina, Gov Blanco would not let FEMA in! She didn't want to give up control and she was having a problem with thinking clearly. It wasn't until the Gov gave permission to enter that the city saw any Federal relief.

    Mayor Nagin was completely lost in space. The city had NO plans...none, zip, zero.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  10. #30
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    For nearly three days after Katrina, Gov Blanco would not let FEMA in! She didn't want to give up control and she was having a problem with thinking clearly. It wasn't until the Gov gave permission to enter that the city saw any Federal relief.

    Mayor Nagin was completely lost in space. The city had NO plans...none, zip, zero.
    Agreed. That's why you need a strong national leader to take action. There is nothing stopping humanitarian relief from being delivered. We can't post troops and quarter troops, but NOTHING stops water, food, and medical aid from being delivered. The states do not have those resources at that scale. We needed a President to step up to the plate, and he failed miserably. When a team loses, its only a real dirtbag coach that gets in front of cameras and blames his players. A real man accepts responsibility, and again, nobody did. He could send troops and bombs half-way around the world, but couldn't order WATER and FOOD to New Orleans?? That was a national disgrace! The rest of the world doesn't know Ray Nagin or Kathleen Blanco, but they did see George W do a fly by in Air Force One as his fellow Americans were dying of dehydration and exposure, and did nothing.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

Similar Threads

  1. Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum
    By Eric Johnson in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-21-2009, 11:33 AM
  2. Banking Crisis
    By cotts135 in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 02-20-2009, 12:08 PM
  3. A whole new crisis.......GDGDGDGDGDG
    By Gun_Dog2002 in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-17-2008, 12:21 PM
  4. Non Energy Crisis
    By Ron Schuna in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 03:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •