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Thread: We’re Winning The Health Care Debate

  1. #1
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Default We’re Winning The Health Care Debate

    The Morning Bell


    THURSDAY, AUG 13, 2009


    We’re Winning The Health Care Debate



    When any White House knows they are a losing a public debate, they turn to sympathetic journalists to try and reframe the debate in a way that is more advantageous to their policy goals. So after consulting with his best White House sources, The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder wrote under the headline How Conservatives Are Blowing Their Chance, Sunday:

    “Democrats are beginning to notice that opponents of health care reform have discredited themselves. … The media, being a collection of different megaphones, reported on the town hall meetings in one of two ways, both damaging to Republicans. Either they credulously reported the louder, angrier voices (inherently damaging to Republicans in this case) or they reported on the political architecture of the town hall meetings, which plays down the substance of the protests. … The White House’s goal was to prevent the Blue Dogs from panicking. The swing constituents in these congressional districts aren’t angry Republicans, and the Blue Dogs know this. They’re political independents for whom the sanctity of the process is important.”

    So that is the official White House spin. But what is the reality? Two new polls came out yesterday from Gallup and Pew, and both of them show that in direct contradiction to Ambinder’s “analysis”, the townhall protests are, in fact, making political independents more sympathetic to opponents of Obamacare. Pew found that of those Americans following the townhalls, 61%, including 64% of independents, said they think the way people have been protesting is appropriate. And according to Gallup, 34% of independents say the townhalls have made them more sympathetic to opponents of Obamacare, compared to only 23% of independents who say the townhalls have made them less sympathetic. Equally important, Gallup found that more Americans believe the townhall protesters are motivated by their internal beliefs and not stirred up by “political activists” crating “organized opposition.”

    In fact, it is the supporters of Obamacare who are resorting to multi-million dollar Astroturf campaigns. Earlier this week Billionaire speculator George Soros pledged $5 million for the cause and any perusal of online bulletin board Craigslist will find hundreds of ads promising $11-16 an hour for “grassroots” campaign jobs supporting Obamacare. And just yesterday Americans for Stable Quality Care (a group largely funded by the pharmaceutical industry but also including the AMA, Families USA, the Federation of American Hospitals, and the SEIU) launched a $12 million television ad campaign in support of the White House plan. This $12 million ad buy is just a small fraction of the $150 million that PhRMA has pledged for advertising and “grassroots activity” to help pass Obama’s plan.

    Turning back to the White House spin, Ambinder wrote about the townhalls: “Lawmakers, Republicans and Democrats, were being asked to respond to non-sequiturs (would you support a health care reform plan that grows the deficit? Health care grows the deficit right now, so it’s a nonsense question, one that is easy for politicians to answer).” This just shows how out of touch the White House is with the American people. As Gallup’s Frank Newport reported last week: “The push for healthcare reform is occurring in an environment characterized by high levels of concern about fiscal responsibility, government spending, and the growing federal deficit. … The economy outweighs health care as the most pressing problem facing the country and in Americans’ personal lives.”

    At his Portsmouth, New Hampshire pep rally yesterday, President Obama pleaded: “Where we do disagree, let’s disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that’s actually been proposed.” Well here is the reality of what has actually been passed by three separate House committees: Obamacare will be spending $245 billion a year by 2019, increases the budget deficit by $239 billion over that same time frame, and in the out years, according to CBO director Doug Elmendorf “the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.”

    Keep on keepin on.....you fellow "Mobsters!!"

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    RK,
    Yes, that's great. I can't wait until health care is soon 20% of GDP as predicted and real wages remain stagnant for the foreseeable future as employer linked health care costs continue to rise. While we are at it let's link our home, life, and car insurance to our employers and then make auto insurance optional too.

    Let's also get the government out of providing flood insurance where private insurers won't take the risk. Wait, I am all for that. Maybe we do agree on something.

    For a different view on the issue take a look at:
    http://www.economist.com/world/unite...ry_id=13899647
    and
    http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_id=13900898

    Do you really believe that big pharma and the insurance companies are spending more to support reform than they are to stop it? Do you also believe that big oil really wants to find alternative energy sources rather than maintain our total dependency on their products? If so, I see how it is only a tiny step to believe that this the real goal of this reform is a government takeover.

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Henry, you're wasting your time posting links to articles like that. You will be told that it's all bullshit, Obama is a Nazi, and you are a commie.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    NO To Socialized Medicine
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    Please cite the portions of any of the health care bills which will lead to socialized medicine.

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    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    The whole stinkin bill is an exercise in socialism
    Bob Gutermuth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Henry, you're wasting your time posting links to articles like that. You will be told that it's all bullshit, Obama is a Nazi, and you are a commie.
    Buzz, are you channeling FOX news again?
    We can't let this be just a right wing echo chamber all the time.
    You probably also want government death panels under our illegitimate Kenyan born President to kill grandma and babies while the 6,000 year old earth is not warming and they take away our guns and freedom of speech and W was a great President. But, of course, you then also know that the giant liberal media machine will cover it all up and dissect Sarah Palin's family at the same time. You godless progressive liberal socialist antiamerican frickin' commie.

    Are you coming to our trial? 224 dogs and a 101 dog special. I hope the weather is good.

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    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    I happen to think the proposed health insurance reforms are a nightmare. Who wants legislation that says every individual is required to give money to private companies or else be fined substantially by the government?

    And by the way--do people REALLY believe the insurance companies are going to be jeopardized by any of these proposals? I'd bet one of the reasons the plans run to 1000-plus pages are so that insurance companies get paid what they want.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure keeping a status quo where INSURANCE companies can and do cherry-pick and discount only healthy individuals, insurance companies that can and do make health-care decisions based on cost and bottom line despite the fact that they've been paid to INSURE health care for their insured...

    Well, I'm not sure keeping the status quo is exactly "winning."

    Some logical, limited, common-sense reform wouldn't be "losing," either.

    Why does everything have to be some great divide with a quorum of maniacs shouting at each other across a canyon?
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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Are you coming to our trial? 224 dogs and a 101 dog special. I hope the weather is good.
    I have my Mick entered in Derby. I'll be staying at the in-law's cabin on Ottertail Lake and driving over on Saturday morning. What stake are you working? I'll try and drop by to say hello.

    Best,
    Dave Bezesky
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    NO To Socialized Medicine
    Public servants receive heath care benefits even in their retirement isn't that a good thing? Do you consider benefits paid to veterans socialism? Is it socialism when fire and police services are extended to the unemployed as well as the employed?
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

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