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Thread: We’re Winning The Health Care Debate

  1. #11
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Its socialism when they take my tax money to pay for anything for those who haven't earned it. Examples, health care to illegals, who pay no taxes, and health care to the indolent who have no job and pay no taxes.
    Last edited by Bob Gutermuth; 08-13-2009 at 08:36 PM.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    While we are at it let's link our home, life, and car insurance to our employers and then make auto insurance optional too.
    Interesting that you mention auto insurance. The gov't requires auto insurance (in most states, I think). When rates get too high for certain high risk areas, the gov't has the insurors form high risk "pools". Not a car insurance expert, but I think the idea is that all the people that are high risk, are put in a group where all the insurors operating in the state share those high risk drivers. The premiums are still not "cheap", but it gets insurance on those people ... if they want to drive. The coverage provided is "basic".

    I still question whether the gov't will provide things "cheaper" just because they are "non-profit".

    M&K, you seem to be in the insurance business. Could you get a quote for the type of insurance the bill proposes ... and then we can take off some % for the "profit" of insurance companies and see what the cost looks like.

    Why does the government have to get involved in being the insuror? Why not just have the existing insurors provide a "basic" policy (akin to what is proposed in the bill). Then make it a withholding on paychecks (for those who have no other health insurance), and the money goes directly to the insurance "pool" formed by existing insurors. No "cherry-picking", and nobody pays a tax & gets nothing in return. That young fellow who pays the 2.5% tax at the end of the year will not be helped if he remains uninsured and falls off a ladder painting his house. The virtue in doing it this way is that it would be easier to "undo" and change than it would be if the govt is the insuror.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    Its socialism when they take my tax money to pay for anything for those who haven't earned it. Examples, health care to illegals, who pay no taxes, and health care to the indolent who have no job and pay no taxes.
    Well, that doesn't quite answer my question but then neither of us are beholden to each other.

    As far as health care goes I don't think it should be viewed as a commodity, at least in it's payment model.
    I can spend myself blind or stay within my budget when it comes to consumer goods. If GM could seduce me into their showroom each year to buy a new car and I got myself into more debt than I could afford, that would be my problem and I wouldn't ask you to bail me out and I sure wouldn't lobby to have GM produce cheaper, no make that less expensive cars so that I could buy a new one each year and not go into debt.

    But who decides to get sick? Sure we could all eat better and exercise more or not live where the water supply is contaminated from mine tailings etc., etc. ad nauseum. For the most part however, we get sick just because we're human and even the severity of our illness is sometimes luck or bad luck if you will. Being ill and requiring treatment is not impulse shopping and frankly I don't want to be viewed just as an source income.

    From what I can see of the debate raging over healthcare, your country is caring enough to be certain that your vetrans recieve healthcare, your police and fire fighters are provided for into their retirement too, ironicaly I gather that your poor and yes, the lazy too, are taken provided for. So I am mistified when I see the tempers flare and the indignation rise at the spectre of a great nation loosing all its' founding priciples and becoming socialist. You already reap the benefit from shared expenes, see the value to pooling resources to build and maintain a great nation.

    From where I sit and from what I can gleem from this very carefully managed national fracas, who is it that this supposed to benefit by this HR bill? Not the illegals, not those on welfare, no it's the guy who lives next door to you who works but maybe his wife has cancer and his insurer won't cover him at a rate he can afford, or he just lost his job because his multi national employer just shipped the CNC machine he worked on the Indonesia, It's the guy who, there by the grace of God go I.
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    Did I hear Obama say that the NEWS MEDIA was giving too much air time to health care protester and town hall meetings ? Funny he didn't say nothing about the media bias when he was running. need to watch abc,nbc and cbs to see if they will cut back on their coverage

  5. #15
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    I'm one of those cops who has insurance in my retirement, but I pay for it, its not a freebie, that after 25 yrs of risking my butt for an ungrateful citizenry. Vets get soome free care, but military retirees have to pay for much of theirs.

    One of the things I do not want to lose, is quick access to medical care. I don't know how many of my posts you have read, but I am a cancer suvivor. I was diagnosed treated and cured in a bit over 6 months. If the current plan is adopted and I am stuck with it rather than private insurance, I am worried that I am reaching the age (58), where the govt plan will either not waste money on me OR I will be in line far too long to be able to have whatever my problem is fixed.

    We have a country replete with millions of illegal aliens, and the Obamacare plan is open to giving them free healthcare, like the slugs on welfare(we have a lot of them too). I grew up learning there ain't no free lunch and I don't want to be paying for the illegals and the indolent to get something that I had to work for. The really disabled are a different kettle of fish.

    Those who get military or public safety healthcare had to earn it by the sweat of their brow even if they get gratis now, they have earned it.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    I'm one of those cops who has insurance in my retirement, but I pay for it, its not a freebie, that after 25 yrs of risking my butt for an ungrateful citizenry. Vets get soome free care, but military retirees have to pay for much of theirs. Just asking cause I don't know but is the coverage subsidized by the state. I noticed that there is a large short fall in the Balitimore healthcare plan.

    We have a country replete with millions of illegal aliens, and the Obamacare plan is open to giving them free healthcare, like the slugs on welfare(we have a lot of them too). I grew up learning there ain't no free lunch and I don't want to be paying for the illegals and the indolent to get something that I had to work for. The really disabled are a different kettle of fish. Ain't these guys already protected?

    Those who get military or public safety healthcare had to earn it by the sweat of their brow even if they get gratis now, they have earned it. Doesn't the miner or the machinist or the butcher or baker who spent his working life toiling for the American dream deserve the same?
    You don't seem to have a problem with Socialism when you benefit but extending a hand to another worker is SOCIALISM ? That strikes me as disingenuous at best. BTW I'm glad you are a survivor, folks just shoudn't have to make the choice between health and their family's livelihood.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    We have a country replete with millions of illegal aliens, and the Obamacare plan is open to giving them free healthcare, like the slugs on welfare(we have a lot of them too). I grew up learning there ain't no free lunch and I don't want to be paying for the illegals and the indolent to get something that I had to work for. The really disabled are a different kettle of fish.
    Everything I've read says that illegals are specifically excluded in the bill. Please show me in the legislation where it says that illegals will be covered. I'm willing to read it and believe if I see it in writing.
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  8. #18
    Member Pat G's Avatar
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    Please show me where it explains the process of verification of citizenship in HR3220

  9. #19
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Everything I've read says that illegals are specifically excluded in the bill. Please show me in the legislation where it says that illegals will be covered. I'm willing to read it and believe if I see it in writing.
    They will be granted citizenship at a later date. Gives the bill palatability(if possible) and cover for Congress. Don't assume things will remain as they are.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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